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Public sector pensions.

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Public sector pensions.

Old 5th Jan 2018, 19:29
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Public sector pensions.

I thought that some of you may be interested in this very useful article from The Spectator.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/...ector-pension/
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 19:43
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Thanks for posting Al.
TBH, I feel that there is a large dose of scaremongering, based around a few truths. Yes, there might be some further increase in old-age life for lucky(?) few but, I do not think overall life expectancy will increase that much. And here is the rub, it will be longer life in old age, not younger longer! So, working "until 80" will be interesting for the average citizen.
As for the Gov funding pensions from taxation, it is the way they chose to do it. TBH, they like funding it that way so much, that they have avoided saving in a pension pot! Yes, they are going to have to find a lot of money in the future but, it is not going to be as bad as stated, IMO. Furthermore, with the future of social care (again, longer life in old age, not younger-longer) totally up shit creek, I can foresee a situation where pensions are traded for social care. Overall, I do not see that the country will grind to a halt over this, primarily because the pension age will keep slipping back and, I do not think that general life expectancy will increase that much (until the new world order comes in and population is slashed!) OH!

OAP

Last edited by Onceapilot; 5th Jan 2018 at 20:17.
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Old 5th Jan 2018, 19:59
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Al R,

Aneurin Bevan, the founder of the NHS, said this in 1948:

"The Secret of the National Insurance Fund is - there ain't no Fund"

The whole thing is a vast Ponzi scheme: our pensions are in the same boat; all Ponnzi schemes must collapse one day.

Best of luck, chaps - I should be well out of it before the roof comes in !
 
Old 5th Jan 2018, 20:46
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I plan to live forever. So far, so good.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 06:02
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Thanks for posting...

A couple of points. I agree with OAP, the whole increasing longevity thing is a little "rose-tinted". At the moment, with a childhood obesity epidemic in many western countries (esp the UK) longevity went down in 2018. Sure the tech will improve, but will it always be state-funded?

And I also utterly agree with Danny...the whole NI thing is just a ponzi scheme, always has been, always will be (until it eventually collapses). Whilst there are many macro economists who dispute the "technical labelling" of "ponzi" (preferring "tunnel scheme" or some such), there are few who would disagree with the basic premise (and the dangers thereof).

So yeah, in the very long term we are up sh1t creek in a barbed wire canoe, and pensions are only part of it...the NHS and care of the elderly are just as big and potentially more immediate.

And philosophically speaking why should any of this surprise us? Do we not read our history? Once a population becomes complacent and ever-more reliant and "entitled" to all the state is willing to provide it is already on the downhill slope.

The Romans discovered just that a few thousand years ago.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 07:40
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My skipper, 50 years ago, observed that inflation of the day meant we would be earning 500k or some such in a few decades. Well that was off the mark.

In 1992, a colleague observed that our pay had just passed the 20k mark. (Flt Lt spec aircrew). Now, as a spec aircrew retiree, our pensions income is more than double that pay, and this in an era of low inflation.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 08:55
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A small dent in the liabilities could be made if free TV Licences and passports for over 80s were scrapped and Winter Fuel Payment was only made to those on benefit.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 09:41
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Except that it's cheaper to retain the existing Winter Fuel Payment scheme than to administer any alternative - as the current government was obliged to admit after their original manifesto proposal.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 10:51
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.... if free TV Licences and passports for over 80s ...
Point of Order Brian - Are you getting yours ?

Free TV licences are for the Over-75s.
Free Passports only if born before Sept 1929 - or over 16 at the end of WWII.

Winter Fuel payments are for the over 65s or born before 1953.
Don't forget the cold weather supplements
Christmas 10 Bonus for OAPs and other qualifiers.
Free Prescriptions for OAPS.
Have I missed anything -

BEagle - I wrote to DWP a few years ago asking how I could forgo my Winter Fuel payment - They replied apologetically saying I would have to send them a cheque....

Moral - take the money, and if you can afford it - give it to a more deserving charity - Don't forget to Gift Aid it - make the Chancellor pay twice.

LFH

.....................
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 11:15
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Free prescriptions are for over 60. Think OAP definition is,"in receipt of State pension".

OAP (not an OAP)
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 16:24
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Free prescriptions for everyone in Scotland
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 16:25
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Don't forget the free bus pass! It can be used to get to the airfield to fly one's aeroplane.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 16:41
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However, if you live in any of the former " British Empire " countries like Australia, NewZealand and Canada
your pension is forever frozen and all other benefits are lost.
I wonder what will happen to pensioners in EU countries after Brexit.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 17:19
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Talking Lordflasheart

Am I getting mine? That's a bit personal - Yes, despite being married to my beautiful wife for 50 years!: Oh! You didn't mean that!

I'm not yet old enough for a free TV Licence and I bet there is no way one can opt to continue paying - if there is I can't be bothered to look! Having persuaded our mothers to renew their passports when in their 80s ( because they both had off-spring overseas ) I assumed, wrongly I guess, that that age was something to do with free passports.

Yes, I have been getting the Winter Fuel Payment since 2006 when I was 60 - looks like I'm not up to date there as well!

I don't buy the government's claim that it would be too expensive to 'means test' the allowance. We have a 'means test' already - its called a tax code. Surely some bright spark could devise a programme that lets DWP, or whatever it's called these days, receive a link from HMRC stating who is no longer entitled.

Many changes that could reduce liabilities are political 'hot potatoes' - why do the residents of England have to pay for prescriptions when a mile from me, in Wales, they are free? Why isn't the charge aligned with state retirement age? Why should the emergency services receive a pension straightaway ( I believe ) after only 25 or 30 years service? Etc, etc.

PS Before someone asks why don't I give my fuel payment back - I do give to quite a few charities and in the last year my daughter has fled a bad relationship in London and is finding it difficult to find work here especially with a very sick daughter - lots of demands on 'Bank of Mum & Dad'.

Last edited by Brian 48nav; 6th Jan 2018 at 17:24. Reason: omit some letters and addition
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 17:25
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"why do the residents of England have to pay for prescriptions when a mile from me, in Wales, they are free?"

devolution

local policies for local people - they get a far worse education over the border - and their ambulance service is a joke...................
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 18:50
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Originally Posted by RHKAAF View Post
However, if you live in any of the former " British Empire " countries like Australia, NewZealand and Canada
your pension is forever frozen and all other benefits are lost.
I wonder what will happen to pensioners in EU countries after Brexit.
Theresa May has given repeated assurances that ex pat Brits resident in EU countries will, post brexit, continue to receive the triple lock annual increases. When she was again asked the question in Parliament by a Conservative MP a few weeks ago she repeated that assurance.

Last edited by roving; 6th Jan 2018 at 18:54. Reason: syntax
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 19:26
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Triple lock is madness - a straight bribe to pensioners...............
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 20:40
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HH, as was the derisory 10 Christmas bonus and then the winter fuel payment, bus passes, TV licence, prescriptions etc.

Each was a 'voting winning' bribe and then 'electoral suicide' if revoked.

The triple lock came about from one pension increase of pence per week.

University fees was a goodie as it applied only to those that had no vote. Now it would be a vote winner to the opposition to cancel it but the Government can't afford that bribe.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 21:07
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
Triple lock is madness - a straight bribe to pensioners...............
To SOME pensioners.

I haven't had a State Pension increase for 15 years.

Mind you, I don't have a vote so I'm not worth bribing.
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Old 6th Jan 2018, 22:18
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I am very grateful for my old farts bus pass, which I use on my frequent trips to London. I also use my old farts railcard, for which I pay, to travel to and from.

The 10 Christmas bonus on my state pension bought a nice bottle of red for Christmas Day.

The winter Avgas allowance was equally welcome and was spent doing some flying before Christmas.

Do I feel that I should forgo any of these benefits - and create some bureaucratic, administrative tangled web so to do? Absolutely not! I have paid taxes and NI for well over 40 years to merit these "benefits", so I am quite happy to accept them.

Equally, I am quite happy to be magnimous with my charitable donations without such donations being subscribed through and administered by not accepting state benefits.
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