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European Army

Old 9th Nov 2020, 03:30
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by minigundiplomat View Post
Since the EU consists mainly of 25 former sovereign states that traditionally either don't fight, can't fight or have a 'surrender first' policy, and one nation that has an awkward habit of invading the other 25, plucky Malta will probably be the only effective contribution.
A droll if ever so slightly sweeping assessment sir, I think we might look at forming a separate FTA with Malta, along with Australian, Japan and whoever else etc. Mind you of the 25 I'd say at least Poland was worthy.

FB
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 08:13
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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[However, as I understand, it is claimed that the UK were on the losing side of EU law votes only 2% of the time.
That is an interesting statistic. It could be argued that is because we were generally good Europeans and complied with the rules whereas other EU countries ignored what wasn’t good for them?
I look forward to reading an honest appraisal and history of the U.K. in the EU where much of the rhetoric and propaganda has been stripped out , and we will be able to assess the pro’s and con’s objectively. At the moment , we are still too close to the decision for the truth to come out . I just hope that I’m still alive to be able to read it in 25 years .
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 08:37
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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"Since the EU consists mainly of 25 former sovereign states that traditionally either don't fight, can't fight or have a 'surrender first' policy,"

MGD - can we see you make that statement in public at say 10:30 pm in any major square of the 25?
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 12:53
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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As a slightly tongue in cheek aside:
Years ago I sat in the cockpit of the Fiat CR 42 that is now with the RAFM
The pilot defected to the U.K. from Belgium.
He said he didn't want to fight, hated the Belgian weather and the food more so. .
Finally, he couldn't stand his German " colleagues".
As a cynical German officer once asked me:
"What is the Italian war flag?"
"A white cross................... on a white background".

But that was years ago of course...
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 21:14
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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MGD - can we see you make that statement in public at say 10:30 pm in any major square of the 25?
Unfortunately, the ability to puff out ones chest after a couple of vin rouge does not win wars. Ask any elderly inhabitants of Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Rome, Warsaw etc, etc, etc
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 21:36
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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With a birth rate that is well below replacement value, Europe is doing just fine at disappearing without the bother of war.
A side effect is that kids are suddenly a whole lot more valuable, so why waste them in stupid wars?
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 08:08
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by minigundiplomat View Post
Unfortunately, the ability to puff out ones chest after a couple of vin rouge does not win wars. Ask any elderly inhabitants of Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Rome, Warsaw etc, etc, etc

You know I've been to museums and war memorials in all those places - and a hell of a lot of people died in every one of them fighting for their country - they didn't win but they did fight. No-one in the UK, USA or Australia had to fight door to door through their own neighbourhoods.

Your arm-chair wit is sadly misplaced
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 08:22
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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Well said Asturias..I'll just drop in a link to one of our local battles...it's in French but the pictures tell a lot of the story..


https://cras31.info/IMG/pdf/1944_bat...nau_durban.pdf
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 09:01
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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Well said Asturias and wiggy.

I live in the south of France and have lived in Belgium and France for 25 years. It is well worth taking the time to look at local museums and war memorials and to see what the local people had to suffer. People in Poland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands and other occupied countries fought just as bravely as us.

Britain was very lucky to have had 20 miles of sea between it and the continent, other wise we would have gone the same way. There was no way Britain could have stood alone with out La Manche, and the RAF.

And if you want to see what happened in some places I suggest people go to Oradour-sur-Glane:-
https://www.oradour.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane

It could so easily have happened to us.
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 21:25
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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I used to live very close to Oradour and it is a sombre reminder of inhumanity, but I don't understand the context of a massacre of unarmed civilians by the Germans on European nations being able to defend themselves.

Maybe next time skip a museum and go and visit the miles of headstones at the allied war cemeteries before telling me you don't need the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and other non-european help to stop yourselves from killing each other. Remember Bosnia, when the EU sat on their hands and the Dutch troops stood by and watched genocide take place?

I'm more than happy for Europe to form an 'army club' and have some new badges, but when, and it will, it all goes wrong and you start killing each other again, don't expect us to pick up the tab with the blood of youth again. I wish you well, but if you want responsibility, you have to take responsibility and all it entails.

Last edited by minigundiplomat; 10th Nov 2020 at 21:35.
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Old 11th Nov 2020, 09:15
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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There really is no answer to that ......................
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Old 12th Jan 2021, 08:45
  #232 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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EUís first uniform - Frontex.

They do use aircraft, but mainly drones and chartered surveillance - not sure if they have designed any wings or other aviation badges...



https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...81685820915975
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