The Arrows at Akrotiri

[YellowTom]

BV, always happy to hear the other side of what the guys up front tell us down the back! Although back in the days when I has a port hole I remember seeing the red dots steering around us when we crawled across the airfield.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by Bob Viking

Perception is a funny thing. Asking for exclusive use has nothing to do with being precious or snooty. It has everything to do with ensuring the safe conduct of multiple aircraft formation flying.

Some people will always believe the Reds are lodged up their own backsides. If you knew them you'd know it's very much an urban myth.

BV

When you talk to them socially they are (sometimes) OK.
When we visited 100Sqdn, the SNCO was just getting a fresh banner out for the Canberra to tow.
He also got out a tin of red paint and carefully painted 9 arrows on the banner.

[Treble one]

Originally Posted by The Oberon

Quick question about formation flying. I know that in very simple terms it is a question of "follow the leader" but are there easier slots than others. Would new members find themselves on the outside or tucked away in the middle?

Oberon, the new pilots usually fly as Reds 2 and 3 as this is either side of Red 1 and its easier to formate on him when you are next to him.


The more experienced you get the further back you go.

[airpolice]

Some people will always believe the Reds are lodged up their own backsides. If you knew them you'd know it's very much an urban myth.

Just like the story that when performing at the Leuchars air show, they had to be put up in the Old Course Hotel, not the Mess with everyone else?

[The Oberon]

Originally Posted by Treble one

Oberon, the new pilots usually fly as Reds 2 and 3 as this is either side of Red 1 and its easier to formate on him when you are next to him.


The more experienced you get the further back you go.

Thanks 111

[Genstabler]

The further out they are, the harder it is to keep station accurately in a dynamic manoeuvre. In arrow, the guy on the inside of the turn will have to anticipate and throttle right back while the guy on the outside of the turn will be throttling up like mad. The cadence of the bosses commands helps the anticipation.

[Dougie M]

Apart from the early morning Secret Olive Something's departure, weary truckies in Akrotiri were awakened by the Reds practises throughout the day, even during the build up to the Gulf War. Protests were futile because the Staish was "Baldy" H******, an ex Red leader. When we were recovering from Riyadh there was a note in the O Mess saying that now the hostilities were over they could look forward to the sound of jets in the circuit again. Sadly the Staish's car was indulged back in a Herc and was fully accessorised with porn, photos of G.E.s girlfriends (same thing really) imaginative wiring looms - it was a 6 1/2 hour leg- and other mementos. It doesn't pay to phuck with truckies rest time.

[[email protected]]

BV - they may be different now but you should have seen how they conducted themselves in Akrotiri in the 80s - that is where the 'urban myths' were born. No smoke without fire etc etc

It doesn't take much to earn a bad reputation but it can take a lot to clear it.

[Tankertrashnav]

Saw them doing a display at South Cerney in 1965, their first full season. When I lived near Kemble in 1969 I saw them practising there several times. Gnats then of course

Just like the story that when performing at the Leuchars air show, they had to be put up in the Old Course Hotel, not the Mess with everyone else?

When several tanker crews were detached to Leuchars on a Dragonfly once, and the mess was full, they stuck us up in a dormitory in the attic. Don't remember being offered the Old Course Hotel as an option!

[Bob Viking]

Hearing tanker crew complaining about others getting better accommodation is a bit rich in my experience. I never complained about it when I saw others getting a better deal. I just took it as a mission to get myself the better deal next time.

As for the Old Course Hotel I obviously do not know the particulars of your story but I would bet the Old Course may well have subsidised the occasion and the Reds were probably ‘working’ whilst there.

Maybe you could have got the same deal but I doubt that for the hotel to advertise an opportunity to mingle with/play golf with a miserable git had the same ring as mingling with the Reds.

You can see I am being slightly mischievous but as I said, perception is key.

BV

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by chevvron

I was there in '86 for ATC Camp and they arrived early April (and within 48 hours had p1ssed off the entire station)

Nothing changed them, same in 1972.

BV, nothing to do with professionalism - the no flip flops, not flying suits in the Mess was waived for them. Flip flops and red suit! And the Staish all beaming smiles.

[BEagle]

In VC10K days, we certainly stayed at the Old Course a few times when Leuchars OM was being rebuilt. Which was fine - except for the time when our stay coincided with a Liberal Democrat party conference (or was it SDP then). Hence the advice to everyone not to visit the heads solo, in case there was a Lib Dem politician lurking therein.

Some pompous, career-seeking Flt Cdr (some may know of him as 'avocado with feet' from his time in the South Atlantic) decided to order us home even though the wind was still out of limits at the time "Because the Dulles schedule has taken off, we can't lose face to them and we'll save the Queen some money...". So we rushed around packing bags; when it came time to pay the bill, the hotel told us that we'd have to pay for the extra night which had been booked anyway! Fortunately the crosswind at Brize had abated to 27.9 kts across by the time we got back....

[Bill Macgillivray]

Had no problems with the "Reds" in May 1972. We were the Vulcan (escort) on their first trip to North America (still Gnats). Probably the nicest bunch of guys that it was my pleasure to mingle with (professionally and socially!). Never forgotten!!

Bill

[Tankertrashnav]

Hearing tanker crew complaining about others getting better accommodation is a bit rich in my experience. I never complained about it when I saw others getting a better deal. I just took it as a mission to get myself the better deal next time.

It was a bit tongue in cheek, Bob, but there is little doubt that we tankertrash did come pretty well down the pecking order! Which reminds me of an incident at Akrotiri. At the time the air conditioned transit blocks were reserved for the shiny VC10 fleet. One day a tired, hot and sweaty tanker crew were humping their gear to their two to a room non air conditioned accommodation, when a sergeant VC10 LM who was standing at the door of his cool room was unwise enough to call out "there go the tanker trash". Unluckily for him the tanker nav radar was an irascible red haired flight commander not known for his tolerance of insubordination. Said sergeant rapidly found himself out on his ear and his room commandeered by one of the tanker crew. The green shield squadron leader VC10 captain complained to the station commander, but got no support whatsoever.

[Heathrow Harry]

Abit off thread but soemthing I occasional wonder about:-

Does flying with the Reds accelerate/cramp /make no difference in your future RAF career??

[fabs]

They don’t appear to get any special career treatment. The few I know seem to rise at the normal ish pace.
I imagine being on the team presents some great networking opportunities for when they leave the RAF though.

[PAXboy]

Hi folks, is their any announcement yet about Springhawk practise? Thanks.

[Barksdale Boy]

I had the good fortune to meet them at a ceremony in Hong Kong in October 2016. They could not have been more charming or considerate - a credit to the Service and their country. And three of them were ex-617, which was nice of course!

[alwayslookingup]

When the Reds used Aberdeen Airport for three days in June 2016 they stayed at the Malmaison. Best steak in town.

[FAStoat]

Even in the 70s,the Crimson Crabs were not allowed to be housed with the rest of us.They got zapped too often!!The Boss used to send recce parties to find their Hotac.Usually identified by Red MGBs or next year Red Hondas,as I remember.Our Greenie did a splendid job of placing herrings in the Heater boxes,and potatoes up the Hondas Exhausts,at a particular establishment one year to then again find them at another the following year,whilst at Greenham IAT,similarly at the Bournmouth Air Pageants,when they were moved from the Dormey to a secret Hotel,which was duly discovered.We then made it SOP for a Crab Hunt wherever else we met them,and that carried on into the 90s,so hardly surprising they still stay elsewhere??.Such merriment was had in those days,which would never be !!!!!today.