The Arrows at Akrotiri
If I recall correctly, after some accident or incident the RAFAT policy towards passenger flying had to be amended?
Incidentally, I met 'Duffy' whilst chatting with Carol. A nice, polite chap who never once mentioned that he'd been a RAFAT member, he told me that he'd flown Jags in the RAF. Check his CV - he's done a lot more than most in his Service career, of which his RAFAT time was a relatively minor part.
Incidentally, I met 'Duffy' whilst chatting with Carol. A nice, polite chap who never once mentioned that he'd been a RAFAT member, he told me that he'd flown Jags in the RAF. Check his CV - he's done a lot more than most in his Service career, of which his RAFAT time was a relatively minor part.
Chevvron
You just don't know when to back-off do you?
You spent the whole of your career in ATC with CAA, initially as an assistant at West Drayton, then the old 3 year cadet course and your entire time as an ATCO at Farnborough. How does this make you an expert on the Red Arrows and what other members of the RAF think about them?
As for 'the incident' at Blackbushe, you and I both know that if you want something done about a possible breach of regulations then you have to go into print. I wouldn't have expected the student ( unless he was already in the business ) to file a report but his instructor and the guy in the Tower should certainly have done so and were remiss not to have done - from your version of the story that is! Either put up or shut up!
When I was a young navigator in the Herc' world there was a saying that did the rounds - " Lord, Teach me to keep my mouth shut until I know what I'm talking about!". You would do well to heed that when it comes to Military Aviation!
You spent the whole of your career in ATC with CAA, initially as an assistant at West Drayton, then the old 3 year cadet course and your entire time as an ATCO at Farnborough. How does this make you an expert on the Red Arrows and what other members of the RAF think about them?
As for 'the incident' at Blackbushe, you and I both know that if you want something done about a possible breach of regulations then you have to go into print. I wouldn't have expected the student ( unless he was already in the business ) to file a report but his instructor and the guy in the Tower should certainly have done so and were remiss not to have done - from your version of the story that is! Either put up or shut up!
When I was a young navigator in the Herc' world there was a saying that did the rounds - " Lord, Teach me to keep my mouth shut until I know what I'm talking about!". You would do well to heed that when it comes to Military Aviation!
You just don't know when to back-off do you?
You spent the whole of your career in ATC with CAA, initially as an assistant at West Drayton, then the old 3 year cadet course and your entire time as an ATCO at Farnborough. How does this make you an expert on the Red Arrows and what other members of the RAF think about them?
As for 'the incident' at Blackbushe, you and I both know that if you want something done about a possible breach of regulations then you have to go into print. I wouldn't have expected the student ( unless he was already in the business ) to file a report but his instructor and the guy in the Tower should certainly have done so and were remiss not to have done - from your version of the story that is! Either put up or shut up!
When I was a young navigator in the Herc' world there was a saying that did the rounds - " Lord, Teach me to keep my mouth shut until I know what I'm talking about!". You would do well to heed that when it comes to Military Aviation!
You spent the whole of your career in ATC with CAA, initially as an assistant at West Drayton, then the old 3 year cadet course and your entire time as an ATCO at Farnborough. How does this make you an expert on the Red Arrows and what other members of the RAF think about them?
As for 'the incident' at Blackbushe, you and I both know that if you want something done about a possible breach of regulations then you have to go into print. I wouldn't have expected the student ( unless he was already in the business ) to file a report but his instructor and the guy in the Tower should certainly have done so and were remiss not to have done - from your version of the story that is! Either put up or shut up!
When I was a young navigator in the Herc' world there was a saying that did the rounds - " Lord, Teach me to keep my mouth shut until I know what I'm talking about!". You would do well to heed that when it comes to Military Aviation!
Yes I spent my whole NATS career at Farnborough where I worked alongside and flew with many highly experienced RAF/FAA/AAC/RM aircrew (yes there really were an Army Air Corps and a Royal Marines Test Pilot at Farnborough) only a few of whom (Transport Flight pilots) had NOT successfully completed the ETPS course.
You forget however that in my spare time I was also an officer in the RAFVR(T), thereby allowing me the chance to visit and stay at various RAF stations, something which the average NATS controller wouldn't do.
I won't say any more as I don't want to put my foot in my mouth again.
Last edited by chevvron; 24th Jan 2018 at 09:52.
Had one experience with the Reds and that was enough. During the days when Lossie had enough aircraft and could muster some different type visitors, families day was actually good. Then the Reds arrived one year and to their obvious disgust had to share the pan that housed 8 Sqn and the Jaguar OCU. In 6 hours they managed to piss off a lot of people. Then 2 of them appeared in the Jag Ops room asking if they could have some maps as somebody somewhere had cocked up. "No problem", said the Auth and pointed them to the Map cabinet. One of the cheeky sods pointed at me and said "your Clerk can get them" The Auth looked at him and said "He is actually our Ops Asst and is not a dog, now bugger off and get your maps from somewhere else" Typical Jag Pilot 
My only direct dealing with RAFAT was excellent! In 1983 I was doing a stint in Stn Ops at RAF Wattisham and had been tasked to sort out a game plan for a Mineval. I rang their HQ on the off-chance that they might be able to transit via Wattisham on their way back after a display to act as an air raid - to be told that yes, indeed, they could help. They would be on their way back from Europe and would be happy to oblige....
I asked if they could simulate an attack trailing smoke, as I knew that there was something missing from the Stn War Plan.
On the day they arrived spot on time and wired the cr@p out of the place, just as I'd planned. A previous incident had dragged on due to being badly handled and, as Distaff, I watched with interest as a fin appeared behind a Sqn Ldr in NBC kit trying to talk to the 'defector' Canberra crew - and the inject turned into chaos. Anyone who'd done a tour in RAFG automatically masked up in 9, whereas the rest flapped about like wet hens.
Down in the bunker, the Stn Cdr turned to his staff and said "Get me the NBC Plan!" "Err, sorry Sir, there isn't one" was the reply.
At the debrief I was told that "There isn't an NBC threat to the UK, so it isn't in the War Plan". "Really?", I replied, "well, there's certainly an NBC phase in next week's CPX paper exercise!".
But no-one seemed interested in the fact that, despite being given the exact time and position of the RAFAT's UK FIR entry point, neither Neatisblunt nor anyone else had spotted 9 bright red Hawks running in to the attack.
I rang the RAFAT later and thanked them for their excellent participation, telling them that it had caused precisely the chaos I'd expected!
I asked if they could simulate an attack trailing smoke, as I knew that there was something missing from the Stn War Plan.
On the day they arrived spot on time and wired the cr@p out of the place, just as I'd planned. A previous incident had dragged on due to being badly handled and, as Distaff, I watched with interest as a fin appeared behind a Sqn Ldr in NBC kit trying to talk to the 'defector' Canberra crew - and the inject turned into chaos. Anyone who'd done a tour in RAFG automatically masked up in 9, whereas the rest flapped about like wet hens.
Down in the bunker, the Stn Cdr turned to his staff and said "Get me the NBC Plan!" "Err, sorry Sir, there isn't one" was the reply.
At the debrief I was told that "There isn't an NBC threat to the UK, so it isn't in the War Plan". "Really?", I replied, "well, there's certainly an NBC phase in next week's CPX paper exercise!".
But no-one seemed interested in the fact that, despite being given the exact time and position of the RAFAT's UK FIR entry point, neither Neatisblunt nor anyone else had spotted 9 bright red Hawks running in to the attack.
I rang the RAFAT later and thanked them for their excellent participation, telling them that it had caused precisely the chaos I'd expected!
Beagle - nice one. I had an interesting time at Binbrook in early 80s on exercise distaff.
Roger Moore - now I wonder if that was the ex Towers Roger Moore. About 20903 ish I rang a certain "Sqn Ldr Roger Moore" at Brockenhurst College to enquire about a place on a Public Service Uniformed National Diploma course for youngest W. " Is that the 88Entry Wander00?" came the response - he had remembered my slightly unusual surname from 40 years before. Youngster got on the course and had a great time. Did not join the services though, and after a degree in yacht building design, construction and survey is a trainee land surveyor. Happy boy though.
Roger Moore - now I wonder if that was the ex Towers Roger Moore. About 20903 ish I rang a certain "Sqn Ldr Roger Moore" at Brockenhurst College to enquire about a place on a Public Service Uniformed National Diploma course for youngest W. " Is that the 88Entry Wander00?" came the response - he had remembered my slightly unusual surname from 40 years before. Youngster got on the course and had a great time. Did not join the services though, and after a degree in yacht building design, construction and survey is a trainee land surveyor. Happy boy though.
From Red Arrows F a c e Book
The team have just arrived in Greece to commence Exercise Springhawk where they will train three times each day to perfect the display ahead of attaining Public Display Authority.
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