FILLING THE RANKS
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I was working down Pompey way yesterday and was talking to a lad who had left the Andrew as a Chief Tiff two days before at the age of 36. Off to work for a local defence company with an instant payrise of 45%. Asked if he thought he would miss life in a blue suit he said he would miss his oppos but likened service today to working for the local council. Too many bosses, not enough troops, budget constraints, petty bureaucracy, empire building. Waterfront Manning came in for particular criticism.
Takes a long time to replace a Chief Tiffs experience.
Takes a long time to replace a Chief Tiffs experience.
Cunning Artificer
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The RN trained their Artificer apprentices from scratch and upon graduation they are/were equivalent rank to Navy P.O. or in the other services, Sergeant. I say "were" because the last of the Tiffys passed out of training in 2010.
In the RAF we also trained for three years and while most of us managed to graduate as Junior Technicians (Able Seaman) with accelerated promotion to Corporal (Leading Seaman), it took another four years to make Sergeant. So, as you point out gr4techie , the RAF got us on the cheap. [At least we never got seasick and slept in a bed every night.]
In the RAF we also trained for three years and while most of us managed to graduate as Junior Technicians (Able Seaman) with accelerated promotion to Corporal (Leading Seaman), it took another four years to make Sergeant. So, as you point out gr4techie , the RAF got us on the cheap. [At least we never got seasick and slept in a bed every night.]
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The RN trained their Artificer apprentices from scratch and upon graduation they are/were equivalent rank to Navy P.O. or in the other services, Sergeant. I say "were" because the last of the Tiffys passed out of training in 2010.
In the RAF we also trained for three years and while most of us managed to graduate as Junior Technicians (Able Seaman) with accelerated promotion to Corporal (Leading Seaman), it took another four years to make Sergeant. So, as you point out gr4techie , the RAF got us on the cheap. [At least we never got seasick and slept in a bed every night.]
In the RAF we also trained for three years and while most of us managed to graduate as Junior Technicians (Able Seaman) with accelerated promotion to Corporal (Leading Seaman), it took another four years to make Sergeant. So, as you point out gr4techie , the RAF got us on the cheap. [At least we never got seasick and slept in a bed every night.]
Unless you're air traffic control or a nurse.
The RN trained their Artificer apprentices from scratch and upon graduation they are/were equivalent rank to Navy P.O. or in the other services, Sergeant. I say "were" because the last of the Tiffys passed out of training in 2010.
In the RAF we also trained for three years and while most of us managed to graduate as Junior Technicians (Able Seaman) with accelerated promotion to Corporal (Leading Seaman), it took another four years to make Sergeant. So, as you point out gr4techie , the RAF got us on the cheap. [At least we never got seasick and slept in a bed every night.]
In the RAF we also trained for three years and while most of us managed to graduate as Junior Technicians (Able Seaman) with accelerated promotion to Corporal (Leading Seaman), it took another four years to make Sergeant. So, as you point out gr4techie , the RAF got us on the cheap. [At least we never got seasick and slept in a bed every night.]
As a normal graduate, I passed out from Locking as an 18 year old J/T, Cpl. at 21, SGT. at 25 and Chf/Tech. at 30. Theoretically this gave me 7 years to "get my crown", I didn't, but there were some that did. There were a handful of brainy ones who passed out as 18 year old Cpl.s and were Chf/Tech.s at 27 and easily made Flt/Sgt by their mid 30s.
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The RN trained their Artificer apprentices from scratch and upon graduation they are/were equivalent rank to Navy P.O. or in the other services, Sergeant. I say "were" because the last of the Tiffys passed out of training in 2010.
Thread Starter
The 'Oxford comma' is incorrect with only 2 items conjoined.
To avoid ambiguity, if the desired sentence needs to indicate that it is only engineers who can 'do big sums', although both aircrew and engineers are senior, I would recommend 'Senior engineers, who can do big sums, and senior aircrew'. In this form, the commas are used in parenthesis, so the comma appearing before 'and' is probably acceptable.
PS - I never did idiot scribblers' school! Nor the 'C' exam, for that matter!
To avoid ambiguity, if the desired sentence needs to indicate that it is only engineers who can 'do big sums', although both aircrew and engineers are senior, I would recommend 'Senior engineers, who can do big sums, and senior aircrew'. In this form, the commas are used in parenthesis, so the comma appearing before 'and' is probably acceptable.
PS - I never did idiot scribblers' school! Nor the 'C' exam, for that matter!
Lyneham Lad - All well and good to highlight the conditions today - but how was Service life (all ranks) in for example, the mid-1930s (budget constraint-wise, reluctance to spend on new programmes etc etc) as a comparison?
All well and good to suggest comparison but what about comparing where it all led to? A major conflict with totally unprepared Armed Forces thet took nearly three years to bring up to speed - we won't have the time if it happens again
All well and good to suggest comparison but what about comparing where it all led to? A major conflict with totally unprepared Armed Forces thet took nearly three years to bring up to speed - we won't have the time if it happens again
(My post underlined for clarity).
http://shanghaiist.com/2017/08/24/too-fat-for-pla.php
Training Risky,
I think you're right and it's a sense I've had for a while now of a deliberate attempt to shift the demographic of all the Services from experienced wafighters to young, cheap and disposable labourers in uniform - think a military version of Primark (if my young teen cousin's description of Primark is accurate I should add!). So not only numerically smaller but also shallower in terms of experience, but crucially for the Treasury (as its their opinion that matters) cheaper in terms of both pay and pensions. Their ability to do more than one turn of a handle or grow that experience in to a credible war fighting capability is a happy coincidence should it occur.
(Other than that, I'm doing fine, seemed to have slipped through the net and am still rolling my eyes at some of the questionable decisions but it keeps me from having to work for a living!)
Edited to add now I've read to the bottom of the thread - Rigga & CharlieGolf, you have definitely highlighted a big part of the problem. We don't join the Forces to chase the big money, so if you take away the other aspects that attract people in the first place of course they will walk. And this goes exactly to my point of recruiting being only part of the solution if politicians want a capable and competent military, capable of winning wars at short notice when they screw up.
Last edited by Melchett01; 8th Sep 2017 at 19:21.
The 'Oxford comma' is incorrect with only 2 items conjoined.
To avoid ambiguity, if the desired sentence needs to indicate that it is only engineers who can 'do big sums', although both aircrew and engineers are senior, I would recommend 'Senior engineers, who can do big sums, and senior aircrew'. In this form, the commas are used in parenthesis, so the comma appearing before 'and' is probably acceptable.
PS - I never did idiot scribblers' school! Nor the 'C' exam, for that matter!
To avoid ambiguity, if the desired sentence needs to indicate that it is only engineers who can 'do big sums', although both aircrew and engineers are senior, I would recommend 'Senior engineers, who can do big sums, and senior aircrew'. In this form, the commas are used in parenthesis, so the comma appearing before 'and' is probably acceptable.
PS - I never did idiot scribblers' school! Nor the 'C' exam, for that matter!
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The RAF has always under appreciated its technical staff, even though it is very dependent upon them.
[QUOTE=Melchett01;9886297]That won't work Bigbux - apparently the Chinese are finding recruitment equally tricky but blame it on the poor state of recruits due to excessive computer games and masturbation (apparently 8% of cases of med fail)
Young Chinese are being rejected by army because they're too fat, masturbate excessively: Shanghaiist
Only 8%?
Now I am worried. What is excessive? Is it too late to stop?
I am reminded of the urban legend that a RN destroyer's crew were secretly ballloted to find the extent of self-abuse. 98% said that they did, and 2% told lies.
Young Chinese are being rejected by army because they're too fat, masturbate excessively: Shanghaiist
Only 8%?
Now I am worried. What is excessive? Is it too late to stop?
I am reminded of the urban legend that a RN destroyer's crew were secretly ballloted to find the extent of self-abuse. 98% said that they did, and 2% told lies.
[quote=langleybaston;9886878]
I know. I shudder to think what the Chinese recruiters would think if they looked over here - I'm sure some units do it competitively.
That won't work Bigbux - apparently the Chinese are finding recruitment equally tricky but blame it on the poor state of recruits due to excessive computer games and masturbation (apparently 8% of cases of med fail)
Young Chinese are being rejected by army because they're too fat, masturbate excessively: Shanghaiist
Only 8%?
Now I am worried. What is excessive? Is it too late to stop?
I am reminded of the urban legend that a RN destroyer's crew were secretly ballloted to find the extent of self-abuse. 98% said that they did, and 2% told lies.
Young Chinese are being rejected by army because they're too fat, masturbate excessively: Shanghaiist
Only 8%?
Now I am worried. What is excessive? Is it too late to stop?
I am reminded of the urban legend that a RN destroyer's crew were secretly ballloted to find the extent of self-abuse. 98% said that they did, and 2% told lies.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Remember, in the 30s, and 60s, you got 3 square a day, free food and accommodation, clothes etc all probably better than civvies and 4/6 weeks leave against 2 and a 6 day week.
For an officer in the 60s you had a barman, in a quarter too, and quarters were often new or less than 30 years old. An officer's quarter was better than the semi I grew up in. The aircraft I flew in were all new. Venerable types such as Varsity and Meteor were less than 10, the Hastings and Anson the oldestc at under 20. We had a future.
For an officer in the 60s you had a barman, in a quarter too, and quarters were often new or less than 30 years old. An officer's quarter was better than the semi I grew up in. The aircraft I flew in were all new. Venerable types such as Varsity and Meteor were less than 10, the Hastings and Anson the oldestc at under 20. We had a future.