Electric vehicles in the military
The bottom line preventing the use of electric is energy density. The kWh per kilo figure is still 10 times higher for diesel! We need a technology breakthrough in battery design before we can even start to address the infrastructure aspect.
Having said that, there is of course lots of potential on docks, airfields etc.
Having said that, there is of course lots of potential on docks, airfields etc.
Why? Range. My journeys are fairly typical: either local, short distance, short time [electric, tick the box] OR long long distance [recently lincolnshire - Harwich- Wernigerode Harz in one go on one tankful.
How long to charge an electric car, and what mileage?
The prospect is very unattractive indeed.
Don't hold your breath until battery technology evolves [and it cannot even solve battery life for smart phones ............]
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According to Peugeot's website ...
I wonder how many "Special 380V recharging stations" there are in UK? 
As to 'normal charging', I tend to recharge when the battery is down to about 50% ... normal charging will then take 5 hours or so to restore 100%/70 miles.
As I said previously, it works for us, and has done for the last 4 years: we love it. Loads of interior space [wot, no engine?], excellent performer in traffic, quiet, really nice to drive, well-equipped and quite comfortable. But batteries/physics will always be the constraint.
Peugeot iOn | 5-Door - Peugeot UK
The iOn’s lithium-ion battery stores much more energy than the old NiCd batteries of the 1990s. You can fully recharge it in about nine hours from a 220V domestic plug socket, using the five-metre cable that comes with the car. Special 380V recharging stations for electric cars, located throughout the UK, will replace half the battery’s capacity in just 15 minutes.
As to 'normal charging', I tend to recharge when the battery is down to about 50% ... normal charging will then take 5 hours or so to restore 100%/70 miles.
As I said previously, it works for us, and has done for the last 4 years: we love it. Loads of interior space [wot, no engine?], excellent performer in traffic, quiet, really nice to drive, well-equipped and quite comfortable. But batteries/physics will always be the constraint.
Peugeot iOn | 5-Door - Peugeot UK
Well, one major US defence contractor is working on a potential power source;
Compact Fusion · Lockheed Martin
Although one suspects they have other useses in mind as it's primary deployment.
JAS
Compact Fusion · Lockheed Martin
Although one suspects they have other useses in mind as it's primary deployment.
JAS
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I was driving at the pure electric vehicle which is more dependent on infrastructure, mokbile or static, than a pure fossil fuel vehicle.
Everyone does harp on about domestic infra and, to a certain extent, you're right. But at the end of the day, the entire country is already wired for and produces natively electricity. So yes, charging points are required for out and about. But if you're a car park owner or a service station owner and the money is right, market forces will make it happen. There's enough chickens out and about already to rapidly increase the number of eggs, so it's only a matter of time.
Military wise though, the high altitude pseudo satellite application is where it's at I'd say. Definitely a market there, both disaster relieve and permissive air environment conflicts.
Military wise though, the high altitude pseudo satellite application is where it's at I'd say. Definitely a market there, both disaster relieve and permissive air environment conflicts.
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Will deployed forces have to establish a generator park
As for the Tesla heavy duty vehicle, once such a road vehicle has reached cruising speed its consumption may well reduce significantly. As said earlier, ATV needs will be a far greater test.
If you treat it in a Bastion type contex where you're shipping in fuel to run generators, it's less efficient to charge a vehicle than to pour diesel in it I would guess? Losses in generating, charging etc vs losses in a diesel engine. However, I never understood why they didn't just build a solar farm in Bastion!
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pba target, probably the same reason they didn't install solar heating for hot water in Ascension. "It is very cold in the Falklands etc so no point." Yes, they thought ASI was near FI and South Georgia.
Probably thought it was very cold in Afg in the winter so no sun!
Probably thought it was very cold in Afg in the winter so no sun!
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Many of us would need two totally different cars if ]not when] all-electrics become dominant.
Why? Range. My journeys are fairly typical: either local, short distance, short time [electric, tick the box] OR long long distance [recently lincolnshire - Harwich- Wernigerode Harz in one go on one tankful. ......]
Why? Range. My journeys are fairly typical: either local, short distance, short time [electric, tick the box] OR long long distance [recently lincolnshire - Harwich- Wernigerode Harz in one go on one tankful. ......]
Of course society developed in a different direction and many found the people carrier/SUV essential for the mother and a smaller car for commuting. Once you are down to the original 1+1 and no kids then an electric car for short distances and hiring a big car for holidays might be attractive.
However that original 1+1 remains elusive even in retirement. With one set of grand children 90 minutes away (doable) and the other 300 minutes (not doable) and the need to carry the GC, seats etc . . .
Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sadly not the case around here. The infernal yummy-mummy Chelsea tractor SUVs are used for everything from taking little Tarquin and Chlamydia for their half-mile trip to school, going into town to buy yet another bottle of prosecco or blocking railway station car parking spaces designed for Ford Escorts....
...many found the people carrier/SUV essential for the mother and a smaller car for commuting...
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BEagle, exactly what I meant, Mr Yummy gets the small car. Of course if Mr Yum uses public transport Mrs Yummy HAS to use the tractor as it is blocking in the small car.
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Islandlad, brilliant, I think you solved the military problem. Electric vehicle pulls trailer containing super battery pack and low powered generator, a la hybrids, but unhitches in forward area becoming pure electric.
Hybrid tank tows battery trailer for rear area mobility and reverts to diesel, with full tank, on reaching start line.
Hybrid tank tows battery trailer for rear area mobility and reverts to diesel, with full tank, on reaching start line.
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How long to charge an electric car, and what mileage?
I tell 'em the range is 321 miles and that you can charge 175 miles worth in 25 minutes.
Heavy armour seldom makes as much as 200 miles of advance without having to wait for the supply tail to form up and start hauling pork, beans and motion lotion, so the range limitation isn't going to be strategically important in a real-world invasion of some sad-sack Muslim country like Iraq or Afghanistan (or Syria?). If we're ever silly enough to invade the Russian motherland we'll run into the perennial problems of winter where the difference between diesel and electric is irrelevant.
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90 minutes away (doable) and the other 300 minutes (not doable)
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The UK's generating capability and National Grid
As I understand things the UK is already on the edge where spare generating capacity is concerned. So not only will there be a need to build more power stations but the whole of the UK's National Grid will need a major upgrade to cope with the demand for the extra power flowing through it, a not inconsiderable task? Just a simple example from my own street: a small cul-de-sac of fifty houses has between them about 130 cars, most of which would require charging up between 16.00 and 06.00 a significant power requirement that would be replicated across the UK. Fine for me in my Surrey hideaway where everyone parks in a garage or on their drive but unfortunately this isn't an option for most of the car owning population of the UK!
As to the military use of electric vehicles I’m afraid at this stage of the technology cycle I’m totally unconvinced. For Herrick 13 I was at a small base where we had two Huskies and a Ridgeback and a constant effort was required to ensure we always had sufficient fuel to keep them operational with our only source of electricity being a rather temperamental portable generator. Also how much extra will an electric equivalent of a Husky, Ridgeback or Mastiff weigh and will those rickety old bridges, culverts and embankments out in the back of beyond cope?
As to the military use of electric vehicles I’m afraid at this stage of the technology cycle I’m totally unconvinced. For Herrick 13 I was at a small base where we had two Huskies and a Ridgeback and a constant effort was required to ensure we always had sufficient fuel to keep them operational with our only source of electricity being a rather temperamental portable generator. Also how much extra will an electric equivalent of a Husky, Ridgeback or Mastiff weigh and will those rickety old bridges, culverts and embankments out in the back of beyond cope?
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Those vehicles are pretty heavy to begin with, ~17 tonnes for a Mastiff. I should think the downsides of battery weight start to become irrelevant at those levels.
Obviously a move to deployable solar arrays is a big step, but up until the 80s the military led the civvy world in technological development, particularly during conflict, it's only the past 3 decades where consumerism has started to take the lead. The problem is we, well I'm not 'in' any more, so they, only seem to react these days, rather than pro-act*
*I might have just invented that, according to spell checker.
Obviously a move to deployable solar arrays is a big step, but up until the 80s the military led the civvy world in technological development, particularly during conflict, it's only the past 3 decades where consumerism has started to take the lead. The problem is we, well I'm not 'in' any more, so they, only seem to react these days, rather than pro-act*
*I might have just invented that, according to spell checker.
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WW, in electronics in particular the mass market economy has as big bucks as the military with minimal unit costs. As you say, the military technological lead of the 80s is now reversed.
With regard to the Camp Bastion example, electric vehicles may have had an application for all the on-camp tasks. Its usually more efficient to have one diesel generator running at max load and efficiency and full operating temperature, than smaller engines being started and stopped, whilst they are still nearly cold. The cost in time and lives to get fuel in made it a much more valuable resource than at home.
The Camp Bastion example and domestic use cases are similar in that vehicles generally wouldn't have been run flat, and off-peak (load not cost) electricity could have been used for charging, again allowing generators to run at optimum efficiency. Most users in the the domestic case wouldn't need their vehicle until the morning, so could be encouraged to avoid charging at peak demand times by a smart charger which only gives peak output at a lower price when network demand is low via a signal from the grid.
The MOD used to use fleets of electric trucks for on site tasks back in the 1980s. I drove them on a daily basis for about three years and don't ever recall ever having to stop using one due to a flat battery.
The Camp Bastion example and domestic use cases are similar in that vehicles generally wouldn't have been run flat, and off-peak (load not cost) electricity could have been used for charging, again allowing generators to run at optimum efficiency. Most users in the the domestic case wouldn't need their vehicle until the morning, so could be encouraged to avoid charging at peak demand times by a smart charger which only gives peak output at a lower price when network demand is low via a signal from the grid.
The MOD used to use fleets of electric trucks for on site tasks back in the 1980s. I drove them on a daily basis for about three years and don't ever recall ever having to stop using one due to a flat battery.