What do you think will come after Puma
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: England
It will be something Agusta Westland or as we have to say now Leonardo. That was why the MOD re-engined the 330's to give AW/L the chance to get something available. Shocking waste of tax payers money. I believe there were alternatives to that program. If an alternative had been chosen AW/L would not have a UK customer for (based on the Puma experence) about 50 years.
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Zummerset
For what it cost, the Puma HC1 to HC2 upgrade was excellent value - significantly upgrading the aircraft's performance, increasing fuel/payload and, at last, fitting engines with anticipators. As for what comes next, well there are a few options. I think Puma 2 will likely carry on into the 2030-35 timeframe - there is not even, AFAIK, a Future Medium Lift (FML) project team stood up - the last one was folded with the additional Chinook buy and the Puma 2 project. I'm a member of the NATO Next Generation Rotorcraft Capability study group which is looking at the 2035 timescale to field a new platform (if not a derivative of JMR/FVL). My guess is that for the UK it boils down to 3 options. Firstly, a pan-NATO helicopter that will replace NH90/EC225/EH101, second the US JMR/FVL aircraft or thirdly a dual-certified Civ / Mil aircraft from Airbus Helicopters or Leonardo. The final decision will doubtless have influences from Brexit, doctrinal / threat changes and further Industrial rationalisation - in the main if Yeovil is still open in 2030 who owns it.....
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Next to Ross and Demelza
I agree that Puma HC.2 will be around for some time after 2025, and have no doubt that its replacement will be wrapped up along with a Merlin HC.4 replacement. As to what it will be, well now, there's the question.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 322
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From: UK
What Evalu8ter and Willard said. The ideal is to get Puma to 2035 and tag on to whatever medium multi-role platform the US are getting in the same weight class. I think the days of propping up AWHL/Leonardo are over...
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: England
"""""For what it cost, the Puma HC1 to HC2 upgrade was excellent value - significantly upgrading the aircraft's performance, increasing fuel/payload and, at last, fitting engines with anticipators."""""
The Bundesgrenzschutz had the same problem operating ageing 330's. Their answer was to buy ex oil industry 332's and apply their mods. These aircraft while high time had lived a relatively quiet life relative to a military aircraft. I would bet my house that this program was nowhere near the cost of the MOD program. A good answer for an interim fix and better value for money than modifying a 40 year plus airframe. Sikorsky apparently offered Blackhawks at a very low price. A permanent fix but again no work for AW/L for 50 years.
The Bundesgrenzschutz had the same problem operating ageing 330's. Their answer was to buy ex oil industry 332's and apply their mods. These aircraft while high time had lived a relatively quiet life relative to a military aircraft. I would bet my house that this program was nowhere near the cost of the MOD program. A good answer for an interim fix and better value for money than modifying a 40 year plus airframe. Sikorsky apparently offered Blackhawks at a very low price. A permanent fix but again no work for AW/L for 50 years.
Last edited by ericferret; 28th May 2017 at 09:47.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 28
From: Zummerset
Eric,
Every nation will take a different approach to airworthiness, certification and capability.For example, the Bundesgrenzschutz Pumas, IIRC, don't have DAS/ASE or many of the other military systems the Puma 2 has. Replacing the airframes would have required extensive modification and re-qualification of the aircraft's survivability systems and other UK avionics. AW didn't do the work either - it was done by Airbus Helicopters, run out of Kidlington (but with much of the engineering done in Romania). Blackhawk always enters the mix, and it is a great aircraft (for the pilot). It gets very small in the back very quickly, but is a robust "built from the ground up" military helicopter. I'd rather fly the -60 into combat than the Puma, especially if I needed to do a DVE landing at the end....However, there was little/no offset and the cost/time churn of introducing, certifying, training and qualifying a completely new type with assorted support was likely a non-starter as Puma 2 had to be done quickly to uphold capability whilst the rest of FRC played out....JTO, agreed - the answer is two chinooks unless you want to assault a building in a congested built up area. You need something Puma/Blackhawk size not something -47/EH101 size....
Every nation will take a different approach to airworthiness, certification and capability.For example, the Bundesgrenzschutz Pumas, IIRC, don't have DAS/ASE or many of the other military systems the Puma 2 has. Replacing the airframes would have required extensive modification and re-qualification of the aircraft's survivability systems and other UK avionics. AW didn't do the work either - it was done by Airbus Helicopters, run out of Kidlington (but with much of the engineering done in Romania). Blackhawk always enters the mix, and it is a great aircraft (for the pilot). It gets very small in the back very quickly, but is a robust "built from the ground up" military helicopter. I'd rather fly the -60 into combat than the Puma, especially if I needed to do a DVE landing at the end....However, there was little/no offset and the cost/time churn of introducing, certifying, training and qualifying a completely new type with assorted support was likely a non-starter as Puma 2 had to be done quickly to uphold capability whilst the rest of FRC played out....JTO, agreed - the answer is two chinooks unless you want to assault a building in a congested built up area. You need something Puma/Blackhawk size not something -47/EH101 size....
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Shame the MOD wouldn't buy it.
At least the Puma now has the engines it should have had in 1971.
