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What do you think will come after Puma

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What do you think will come after Puma

Old 26th May 2017, 23:04
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What do you think will come after Puma

Any predictions on what you think will replace or what you would like to see replace Puma in 2025?
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Old 27th May 2017, 09:10
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It will be something Agusta Westland or as we have to say now Leonardo. That was why the MOD re-engined the 330's to give AW/L the chance to get something available. Shocking waste of tax payers money. I believe there were alternatives to that program. If an alternative had been chosen AW/L would not have a UK customer for (based on the Puma experence) about 50 years.
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Old 27th May 2017, 09:19
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I would guess that the replacement is already a drawing board project. The primary aim is to make it as expensive and complicated as possible.
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Old 27th May 2017, 09:45
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FED in that case they had better buy the NH90.
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Old 27th May 2017, 10:58
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Originally Posted by The RAF Taff View Post
Any predictions on what you think will replace or what you would like to see replace Puma in 2025?
Call me cynical......Yet another "loss of a capability."
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Old 27th May 2017, 11:09
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It will run on battery power and can only be charged via solar. You'll also need to be a vegan to get certified on it.
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Old 27th May 2017, 11:48
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Given current development times it almost has to be something already flying or we have another life extension programme
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Old 27th May 2017, 13:00
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For what it cost, the Puma HC1 to HC2 upgrade was excellent value - significantly upgrading the aircraft's performance, increasing fuel/payload and, at last, fitting engines with anticipators. As for what comes next, well there are a few options. I think Puma 2 will likely carry on into the 2030-35 timeframe - there is not even, AFAIK, a Future Medium Lift (FML) project team stood up - the last one was folded with the additional Chinook buy and the Puma 2 project. I'm a member of the NATO Next Generation Rotorcraft Capability study group which is looking at the 2035 timescale to field a new platform (if not a derivative of JMR/FVL). My guess is that for the UK it boils down to 3 options. Firstly, a pan-NATO helicopter that will replace NH90/EC225/EH101, second the US JMR/FVL aircraft or thirdly a dual-certified Civ / Mil aircraft from Airbus Helicopters or Leonardo. The final decision will doubtless have influences from Brexit, doctrinal / threat changes and further Industrial rationalisation - in the main if Yeovil is still open in 2030 who owns it.....
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Old 27th May 2017, 13:52
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Ideally whatever the USA chooses to replace the UH-60, so possibly either the Boeing-Sikorsky Defiant



or Bell-Lockheed V280.

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Old 27th May 2017, 14:10
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Blackhawk or its replacement.
Why did they even bother with Puma 2 ?
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Old 27th May 2017, 14:11
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I agree that Puma HC.2 will be around for some time after 2025, and have no doubt that its replacement will be wrapped up along with a Merlin HC.4 replacement. As to what it will be, well now, there's the question.
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Old 27th May 2017, 17:44
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Wessex!!!!
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Old 27th May 2017, 21:03
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What Evalu8ter and Willard said. The ideal is to get Puma to 2035 and tag on to whatever medium multi-role platform the US are getting in the same weight class. I think the days of propping up AWHL/Leonardo are over...
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Old 27th May 2017, 21:39
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Herod a man after my own heart, if only they had spent money on uprated shafts and blades we would still have been flying the ''Mighty Wessex'' today. Puma Paah!
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Old 28th May 2017, 02:05
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Procurement program will be such that one these will win the contract. They will have learnt their lesson from that complicated tandem rotor 47 behemoth.

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Old 28th May 2017, 09:34
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"""""For what it cost, the Puma HC1 to HC2 upgrade was excellent value - significantly upgrading the aircraft's performance, increasing fuel/payload and, at last, fitting engines with anticipators."""""

The Bundesgrenzschutz had the same problem operating ageing 330's. Their answer was to buy ex oil industry 332's and apply their mods. These aircraft while high time had lived a relatively quiet life relative to a military aircraft. I would bet my house that this program was nowhere near the cost of the MOD program. A good answer for an interim fix and better value for money than modifying a 40 year plus airframe. Sikorsky apparently offered Blackhawks at a very low price. A permanent fix but again no work for AW/L for 50 years.

Last edited by ericferret; 28th May 2017 at 09:47.
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Old 28th May 2017, 09:52
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With Chinook as our SH backbone then surely any Puma replacement would need to fill the requirement to land in a confined urban environment?
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Old 28th May 2017, 10:49
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Eric,
Every nation will take a different approach to airworthiness, certification and capability.For example, the Bundesgrenzschutz Pumas, IIRC, don't have DAS/ASE or many of the other military systems the Puma 2 has. Replacing the airframes would have required extensive modification and re-qualification of the aircraft's survivability systems and other UK avionics. AW didn't do the work either - it was done by Airbus Helicopters, run out of Kidlington (but with much of the engineering done in Romania). Blackhawk always enters the mix, and it is a great aircraft (for the pilot). It gets very small in the back very quickly, but is a robust "built from the ground up" military helicopter. I'd rather fly the -60 into combat than the Puma, especially if I needed to do a DVE landing at the end....However, there was little/no offset and the cost/time churn of introducing, certifying, training and qualifying a completely new type with assorted support was likely a non-starter as Puma 2 had to be done quickly to uphold capability whilst the rest of FRC played out....JTO, agreed - the answer is two chinooks unless you want to assault a building in a congested built up area. You need something Puma/Blackhawk size not something -47/EH101 size....
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Old 28th May 2017, 13:06
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Originally Posted by huge72 View Post
Herod a man after my own heart, if only they had spent money on uprated shafts and blades we would still have been flying the ''Mighty Wessex'' today. Puma Paah!
They upgraded everything and called it the Blackhawk.
Shame the MOD wouldn't buy it.

At least the Puma now has the engines it should have had in 1971.
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Old 28th May 2017, 13:14
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At least the Puma now has the engines it should have had in 1971
A bit difficult. From Wiki.

The Turbomeca Makila is a family of French turboshaft engines for helicopter use, first run in 1976 and flown in 1977
In service with the 332 Super Puma in 1980.

I saw the first 'Super Puma' with Makilas in 1977. It was one of the original six prototype 330s with the flat Huey type nose. There was a one metre plug at the rear of the fuselage and single main wheels. The instrumentation inside hadn't changed a lot since 1966.
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