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Old 1st Jun 2022, 17:12
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I have read stories of WW1 pilots up to 13'000. WW1 pilots didn't have oxygen. I also believe they suffered illness because of it.
WW2 Bomber Crews would often unclip their masks to eat, drink but clip them back again due to hypoxia.
As others have said British needed their masks to talk but iirc both German and American did not as they used throat mikes.
After a battle, when Bader slid his canopy back his squadron would move away from his aircraft a little. He was about to light a cigarette and they didn't want to be engulfed in the ensuing explosion if he had been hit.
Adolf Galland had an ash tray installed in his cockpit.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 17:35
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oxygen masks and beer

This is too good to not have another outing.

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Old 1st Jun 2022, 19:50
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Originally Posted by uxb99 View Post
I have read stories of WW1 pilots up to 13'000. WW1 pilots didn't have oxygen. I also believe they suffered illness because of it.
.
By 1917/18 RFC/RAF pilots were regularly doing high altitude patrols at 17,000ft up to sometimes 21,000ft (depending on a/c type) - not a healthy occupation without oxy and pressurisation.
I have been up to 11,500ft quite a few times in a glider without oxy with no ill effects but I usually did not stay above 10,000ft very long
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 20:09
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
By 1917/18 RFC/RAF pilots were regularly doing high altitude patrols at 17,000ft up to sometimes 21,000ft (depending on a/c type) - not a healthy occupation without oxy and pressurisation.
I have been up to 11,500ft quite a few times in a glider without oxy with no ill effects but I usually did not stay above 10,000ft very long
I guess you become acclimatised to the altitude a bit like Mountaineers. 21'000 feet is pretty high though.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 23:35
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by uxb99 View Post
I have read stories of WW1 pilots up to 13'000. WW1 pilots didn't have oxygen. I also believe they suffered illness because of it.
WW2 Bomber Crews would often unclip their masks to eat, drink but clip them back again due to hypoxia.
As others have said British needed their masks to talk but iirc both German and American did not as they used throat mikes.
After a battle, when Bader slid his canopy back his squadron would move away from his aircraft a little. He was about to light a cigarette and they didn't want to be engulfed in the ensuing explosion if he had been hit.
Adolf Galland had an ash tray installed in his cockpit.
I think he actually had a cigar lighter !!!!
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 00:17
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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USN use 100% Oxygen from the get go, so they would normally wear the mask from start up. The (possibly) only fast jet pilots that don't wear a mask (during displays) are the Blue Angels who use a boom microphone.
Personally I would always wear one in the aircraft, apart from eating and drinking, as a bird in the face, rapid decompression, canopy failure or canopy jettison/MDC splatter can really ruin your day without one.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 00:23
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'Stitchbitch' (ex-A4G?) has the good SOP. Here is an oldie but goldie story about 'the best hangover cure EVER!' Pure Oxygen under Pressure.
Perils of Pure Oxygen Under Pressure [5 page PDF about LOX and acceleration atelectasis attached [Kiwis solved LOX problemo]
“...Another prominent influence in Paul's AirPac world was a female aviation physiologist at Alameda. He later learned that she was the first female aviation physiologist in the Navy. "A bunch of us were sitting in a briefing room awaiting the lecture on the use of oxygen equipment when this really attractive brunette walked in. We all sort of straightened up and paid attention. The young lady began the lecture by asking, 'How many of you smoke?' Several hands went up. Then, 'How many of you smoke while flying?' Some hands remained raised."
Without a further word, the physiologist strode to a console, inhaled deeply of 100 percent oxygen from a tank and produced a cigarette lighter. "This little gal blew a big breath, flicked the lighter and ignited a streak of flame right over our heads that seemed about six feet long," Paul recalls with a grin. Then she said, "That's why you don't smoke in the cockpit."
"Believe you me – she made her point! I thought, 'Hmmm... she's all right.'...”
‘Where Are They Now? Paul Gillcrist’ by Barrett Tillman http://www.tailhook.org/Gillcrist.htm
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
LOXconcerns PRNpp5.pdf (645.9 KB, 12 views)

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 2nd Jun 2022 at 00:52. Reason: proofredding
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 01:17
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Wasn't there a story of a pilot with a bushy moustache, which caught fire in his mask as the acft transitioned to 100% oxy - he had been eating a peanut butter sandwich and the oil was still on his mo.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 02:22
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Originally Posted by Cedrik View Post
It was rumored the loss of an F18 quite a few years ago in Australia's North was due to the pilot taking off his mask
30 odd years ago this RAAF Pilot paid a heavy penalty for habitually removing oxy mask in flight. I have other PDFs/Links saying so but this one will do for now.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 02:50
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Originally Posted by uxb99 View Post
I have read stories of WW1 pilots up to 13'000. WW1 pilots didn't have oxygen. I also believe they suffered illness because of it.
WW2 Bomber Crews would often unclip their masks to eat, drink but clip them back again due to hypoxia.
As others have said British needed their masks to talk but iirc both German and American did not as they used throat mikes.
After a battle, when Bader slid his canopy back his squadron would move away from his aircraft a little. He was about to light a cigarette and they didn't want to be engulfed in the ensuing explosion if he had been hit.
Adolf Galland had an ash tray installed in his cockpit.
Don't believe he was a cigarette or cigar smoker. It was his pipe.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 02:56
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SIFTING THROUGH THE EVIDENCE Pilot incapacitation near Tindal, 05 June 1991, (AF/A-18 A21-41) 2 page PDF attached
DDAAFS Defence Aviation Air Force Safety http://www.pigzbum.com/accidents/sif...he-evidenc.pdf
"...If the incident pilot had in fact not realised the cabin pressure switch was incorrectly set to DUMP, the cabin would have been unpressurised and the pilot, on removing his mask at altitude, would have quickly suffered hypoxic hypoxia due to the lack of cabin oxygen....
...The most likely causal factor was deemed to be that the pilot suffered hypoxic hypoxia, as a result of removing his oxygen mask in an unpressurised cockpit at altitudes greater than 28,000 ft....

...Footnotes: The incident pilot had a history of flying with his oxygen mask removed. As recently as two days before the accident, the incident pilot had indicated to another squadron pilot that he considered it unnecessary to wear his oxygen mask at altitudes around 30,000 ft since the cabin altitude was only about 12,000 ft under those circumstances. (With the cabin pressure switch set to NORM, the AF/A-18 cabin pressure schedule maintains a cockpit altitude of approximately 8000 ft until 23,000 ft aircraft altitude. Above 23,000 ft aircraft altitude, the cockpit altitude increases slowly to approximately 14,500 ft at 35,000 ft aircraft altitude, and 20,000 ft at 50,000 ft aircraft altitude.) The Board concluded that since a radio call had been made passing FL220, the incident pilot must have taken his oxygen mask off some time later, probably when he unexplainably levelled off at FL280 for a short period during the climb. (The time of useful consciousness at FL280 is less than two minutes and time to unconsciousness is less than four minutes. These times decrease with increasing altitude.)...

...It was thought, that since the incident pilot had only completed AVMED training once (during his initial pilot training and four years prior to the accident) that he may have had insufficient experience to be fully aware of his individual hypoxia symptoms. At the time of the accident he was 11 months overdue for his AVMED refresher training."
Attached Files
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 03:12
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SpazSinbad.

My recollection was that the wingman stayed in place until min fuel diverting to Gove hoping for a quick refuel to chase lead.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 04:33
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Originally Posted by finestkind View Post
SpazSinbad.

My recollection was that the wingman stayed in place until min fuel diverting to Gove hoping for a quick refuel to chase lead.
Where is your recollection from please? TIA. As you can see I'm interested in this story for my BIG PDF & 'oxy probs' not just LOX.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 06:44
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Spaz, details here, page 34, the wingman returned to Tindal upon reaching min fuel, no mention of Gove. I see you have referenced the link yourself previously.

http://www.pigzbum.com/accidents/sif...he-evidenc.pdf

I have some extremely vague recollection that there was some problem with the Hornet pilot to airframe oxy connection at some time where it could become unplugged, may be the memory turning to mush.

Then again, perhaps he recognised the onset of hypoxia because of the now recognised issues with the on board oxygen generation system and removed his mask, who knows.

Last edited by megan; 2nd Jun 2022 at 07:08.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 07:45
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Interesting document - I hadn't realised that so many RAAF F-111s were lost.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 07:55
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Spaz, details here, page 34, the wingman returned to Tindal upon reaching min fuel, no mention of Gove. I see you have referenced the link yourself previously.

http://www.pigzbum.com/accidents/sif...he-evidenc.pdf

I have some extremely vague recollection that there was some problem with the Hornet pilot to airframe oxy connection at some time where it could become unplugged, may be the memory turning to mush. [mine is mush that is why I make BIG PDF ] Then again, perhaps he recognised the onset of hypoxia because of the now recognised issues with the on board oxygen generation system and removed his mask, who knows.
The BIGsPums PDF does say that mishap pilot was known to unmask upstairs - to me it would seem he regularly de-masked but this fatal time the pressurization was not working (finger trouble error on someone's part) so he quickly succumbed to hypoKiCK hypocia. {I did not know there was such duble truble}. Another reason why checklists are important along with SOPs. And I always had two visors down when possible.

Hypoxic hypoxia (hypoxemic hypoxia) : There is a lack of oxygen in the blood flowing to the tissues.

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 2nd Jun 2022 at 07:57. Reason: Hypoxic hypoxia symptoms
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 08:30
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Originally Posted by tartare View Post
Interesting document - I hadn't realised that so many RAAF F-111s were lost.
FlgOff Kelly Pilot of OHAKEA F-111 ejection upon takeoff went on to DECK Land an S2G aboard MELBOURNE in 1980.

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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 09:07
  #238 (permalink)  
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-df082d1dac9c/

June 24, 1995

Navy officials said yesterday that their investigation into the fatal crash of an F-14 jet fighter in 1989 in Arizona revealed that the mishap occurred when the pilot and navigator removed their helmets and oxygen masks, donned their cloth garrison caps and saluted pilots in a nearby plane who were taking pictures of them.…
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 10:53
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There is talk about 'mooning' in that article. YEAH RIGHT in flight - sure. At least these RAAFie CHAPPies were decent enough to do it on the tarmac.

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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 12:39
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Now why do I think that photo should be on Arrse....?

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