Low vis to USA

[cessnapete]

Let's hope Mrs May has a standby ticket for BA tomorrow, as her RAF transport and crews not cleared for low vis operations!
The infight movies better too.

[BruisedCrab]

What? You're broken and unreasonable, say again in English.

[Heathrow Harry]

Linking Mrs May's trip to see the new president with the fact that Brize doesn't have much in the way of capability in low vis (see thread on here somewhere) and the fact its solid fog around Oxford right now

[tmmorris]

Maybe that's why the BZN TAF is quite optimistic for tomorrow...

[RetiredBA/BY]

What in ????'s name is going on in the RAF today. All the tanker and transport assets on ONE runway at BZN which has no CAt 2 or 3 capability and yet operates some very expensive and capable aircraft, A330 for example,, on which cat 3 ops in the civil world are just routine. Just what is ( or rather isn,t ) going on??

[Onceapilot]

Don't think you need to invoke the Almighty BA/BY. I blame the historic (hysteric?) FJ VSO cadre for utterly failing to understand big-jet ops and not helping to bring the heavies into the late 20th century!. Vested interests (????) also helped throw sand into the chances of getting Brize and the RAF TriStar upto CAT III (for 25 years!). Now, do not mention the TriStar Autoland accident. That was a pure human factors/crew error and should not have influenced RAF policy but, it was used as ammunition by luddites within the RAF. What was that...? Brize not suitable for CAT III qualification, like saying Heathrow is unsuitable, just depends on the will and the price!

OAP

[Corporal Clott]

I blame the historic (hysteric?) FJ VSO cadre for utterly failing to understand big-jet ops and not helping to bring the heavies into the late 20th century!.

A large number of the VSOs were from the Cholly-Whopper community recently as well. However, the last 4-star with a multi background was not exactly impressive in my humble opinion. So I think the 'FJ Background' is probably a poisson rouge

CPL Clott

[Onceapilot]

Not so Clotty. The FJ VSOs led the way in the past, and that did not include them bringing Heavy capability to the fore. The die was cast, and witness the lack of CAT III at BZN. Who voted for that?

OAP

[JAVELINBOY]

Lunatics in charge of the asylum that's whats wrong

[Bill Macgillivray]

If they cannot get airborne with tomorrow's TAF (even if very optimistic) then there is a big problem! However, living about 8nms to the east of EGVN I see traffic inbound to R/W 26 in very marginal wx. Getting airborne in poor vis. never used to be a problem years ago so why now?

[RetiredBA/BY]

The almighty's name deleted, substitute?
But really, no cat 111 at the RAF, s main, only, transport base. Did my first cat 111 almost 30 years ago !

[Corporal Clott]

OAP

RECENT AOC 2GP
1 April 2000 Air Vice-Marshal K D Filbey - Victor, Nimrod, VC10 and Tristar
2 August 2002 Air Vice-Marshal N D A Maddox - Buccaneer and Tornado
January 2005 Air Vice-Marshal I W McNicoll - Tornado
9 February 2007 Air Vice-Marshal A D Pulford - Wessex and Chinook
16 September 2008 Air Vice-Marshal S J Hillier - Tornado
October 2010 Air Vice-Marshal P C Osborn - Tornado
18 January 2013 Air Vice-Marshal S K P Reynolds - Chinook
July 2015 Air Vice-Marshal G D A Parker - Tornado and Typhoon

RECENT CINCs
Air Marshal Sir Timothy Jenner 1998–2000 - Wessex and Puma
Air Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup 2000–2002 - Jaguar
Air Marshal Sir Brian Burridge 2002–2003 - Nimrod
Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy 2003–2004 - Tornado
Air Marshal Sir Clive Loader 2004-2007 - Harrier
Air Marshal Sir Chris Moran 2007-2009 - Harrier
Air Marshal Sir Simon Bryant 2009-2011 - Phantom and Tornado

RECENT CAS
Air Marshal Sir Stephen Dalton 2009-2013 - Jaguar
Air Marshal Sir Andrew Pulford 2013-2016 - Wessex and Chinook
Air Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier 2016 - Tornado

So I see quite a few Cholly-Whopper background and Multi background to accompany the "FJ VSOs" that you mention. Also, they are all supported by 1-star ACOS with backgrounds in multis in AT/AAR and ISTAR roles with a whole bunch of OF-3 to OF-5 SMEs.

Also Project CATARA and GATEWAY had AT/AAR experienced Project Heads and seeing as they spanned 2x Cholly-Whopper and 3x Tornado AOCs then again I don't believe this is a 'FJ centric' decision.

Sorry old chum, I don't think you can pin this soley on FJ mates. It's just incompetence all around and that is all.

CPL Clott

[2Planks]

Calm down dears! All senior officers have to make a cost benefit analysis; for the very few days that Brize cannot operate beyond CatI, it's not worth it. A bit like saying there should never be a queue in A&E.


As for Mrs May tomorrow, I am sure that if they can see 2 lights on each side it will be just tickey boo! Just like it always has been.


MOVE ON!

[Onceapilot]

The simplistic argument is crass 2Planks. Otherwise, why do money-making civvi airlines pay for CAT III capability?

Hi Clotty. Thanks for your selective recent listings of some senior posts showing 2/3 FJ appointments. I presume you don't seriously claim that FJ VSOs don't rule the roost on RAF policy, or maybe they shouldn't?

OAP

[BEagle]

There would need to be some very expensive land purchase and earth moving to be done before the approach to either RW could be better than Cat1...

The Brize village to Bampton road, the old Bampton road railway bridge and Lew Hill on the approach to RW25 as well as the well-known glideslope characteristics on RW07 pretty well rule out any change to the current situation.

RW07 (or 08 as was) had a 3.24° GS and was not approved for 'coupled' approaches - is that still the case?

[Easy Street]

OAP

If the FJ VSO mafia has been as one-eyed as you suggest, how do you explain the fact that the period 1991-2018 will have seen front-line FJ squadrons reduced from thirty-something to seven, with question marks over the modest re-growth plans trailed in SDSR15, while the previously-decrepit AT/AAR fleet has been comprehensively updated and will be by far the most capable in Europe for decades to come?

Tricky one, that. Don't waste your time.

[StopStart]

I'd suggest the FJ sqns were pared down to foot the enormous bill the phenomenally expensive F35 buy. C17s were leased/bought to fill the enormous gap in the AT heavy lift capability that had been conveniently ignored until enduring operations (and the government and public) demanded it. The A400 was a political/industrial purchase pure and simple that was bought into before we ended up with the very capable C17 fleet. Delayed/unavailable A400 capabilities has meant the extension of the C130 fleet by over 10 years. A330s were PFI'd because it was a politically easy, off-the-books deal that allowed the replacement of an utterly decrepit wide body AT/AAR fleet that had been ignored for decades. A direct purchase would've seriously dented that F35 budget....

[Airbubba]

What aircraft would the PM likely take to Washington? Would it be ZZ336?

SAM 28000 and SAM 29000 are essentially B-747-200's with no autoland or GPS capability.

Former President Obama and his entourage were unable to get into Palm Springs the other day in 28000 using the callsign of SAM 44 since they could only do a VOR approach:

http://www.pprune.org/north-america/...47-flight.html

[Tankertrashnav]

Now, do not mention the TriStar Autoland accident. That was a pure human factors/crew error

Didn't stop the captain's subsequent promotion to 2*

[Two's in]

for the very few days that Brize cannot operate beyond Cat I, it's not worth it.

Sometimes on operations the destination is more important than the origin...