Forces braced for more cuts .....
Let's think what COULD be done to save costs - not for one moment do I think this is good, wise or preferable but it may be necessary:-
(I expect to be trashed - fair enough -but if you disagree please let's see your suggestions as to where the cuts should fall rather than just sticking our fingers in our collective ears and saying it can't/won't shouldn't happen))
1. Complete both carriers but immediatly sell/mothball one - be like the French with only one carrier.
2. Cut the number of F-35's accordingly and slow the delivery of the others - purchase and/or upgrade more Typhoons
3. Extend the Trident submarines for a few years - the USN boats aren't being replaced as soon as ours
4. Cancel any development of a new MBT and the Mechanised Infantry vehicle and buy German or American when/if we need them
5. Accelerate the sale of MoD property - maybe using an incentivised private partner
6. Slow the deliveries of P-8 - we've managed for several years with no Marine Patrol Aircarft - 5 would be better than none - the ordered 9 would be better still but the optional total of 32.............................
7. Amalgamate more Army units to get them to workable size -
8. Pull out of Bahrain, Kenya & Cyprus
9. Drastically reduce the number of SO's, HQ's Whitehall staffs - we should benchmark our senior staffing to that of other countries (Israel for example)
I'm sure everyone will have other ideas as to where the cuts could come............... It would be great if there was an INCREASE in spend but reallistically I don't think we have a cat-in-hells chance
PS I've just re-read the National Audit Office Report https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-eq...lan-2016-2026/ - we were already looking at future cuts - they're just going to be worse now
(I expect to be trashed - fair enough -but if you disagree please let's see your suggestions as to where the cuts should fall rather than just sticking our fingers in our collective ears and saying it can't/won't shouldn't happen))
1. Complete both carriers but immediatly sell/mothball one - be like the French with only one carrier.
2. Cut the number of F-35's accordingly and slow the delivery of the others - purchase and/or upgrade more Typhoons
3. Extend the Trident submarines for a few years - the USN boats aren't being replaced as soon as ours
4. Cancel any development of a new MBT and the Mechanised Infantry vehicle and buy German or American when/if we need them
5. Accelerate the sale of MoD property - maybe using an incentivised private partner
6. Slow the deliveries of P-8 - we've managed for several years with no Marine Patrol Aircarft - 5 would be better than none - the ordered 9 would be better still but the optional total of 32.............................
7. Amalgamate more Army units to get them to workable size -
8. Pull out of Bahrain, Kenya & Cyprus
9. Drastically reduce the number of SO's, HQ's Whitehall staffs - we should benchmark our senior staffing to that of other countries (Israel for example)
I'm sure everyone will have other ideas as to where the cuts could come............... It would be great if there was an INCREASE in spend but reallistically I don't think we have a cat-in-hells chance
PS I've just re-read the National Audit Office Report https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-eq...lan-2016-2026/ - we were already looking at future cuts - they're just going to be worse now
Carrier - one carrier masively reduces capability as with two, it would be possible always to have one available for deployment. One will always have refit and training periods. Fact.
Trident. Hmm, in spite of continuous development, the components and design are, still, from the mid 1980s. Fancy computing on Compaq 8086 pc?
P8 - will give a huge boost in all-environments ISTAR.
MBT - are we still investing in dinosaurs? AFVs - we have a huge defence industry that needs continuous government pump-priming into R&D to remain ahead of the game and thus export more defence equipment (= propserity, more jobs...)
Amalgamate Army units? I agree but it's been done...and will lead to more pointless inflighting in the army over cap-badges.
Pull out from Bahrein and Cyprus? Arguably the treasonous decision ot withdraw East of Suez provided a power vacum in the Gulf - which we still feel teh effects from. And our presence in the Gulf is inexorably linked to wider Governmetn interests.
How can you benchmark Israel's strategic position with that of the UK? Didn't realise Israel was part of NATO? And as anyone who has been in MB recently, the headcount continues to fall.
In sum, most of these issues are about 'Where does Britain stand in the world'? We are still a leading economy, massive defence exporter, still a member of the P5, still a founding member of NATO, still with huge Imperial legacies (which, by and large, are positively influential), and remain a global 'brand'. The fact is we have to back up this stance with raw fire power. That means modern, capable, deployable forces. And that comes at a cost.
What is our alternative? Adopt a Scandinavian model and hug people more (not that the Norwegians in Syria have been doing much hugging of IS recently...quite the opposite)?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Whenurhappy.
Modern AFVs compared to an M1A1 MBT. Makes you realise why they are the same price - and why the A400/C-17 is required rather than the C-130 to carry them.....
SNAFU!: Austrailian ACV contenders size compared to an M1A1.
Modern AFVs compared to an M1A1 MBT. Makes you realise why they are the same price - and why the A400/C-17 is required rather than the C-130 to carry them.....
SNAFU!: Austrailian ACV contenders size compared to an M1A1.
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If the UK disengages militarily from the EU (as opposed to NATO) what happens to the collaborative European programmes, are they all bilateral/multilateral or are some EU funded? Based on the BBC article I saw this morning, Germany does not seem to have much stomach for a lead military role, will France pick up all of it?
Germany: Reluctant military giant? - BBC News
Germany: Reluctant military giant? - BBC News
5. Accelerate the sale of MoD property - maybe using an incentivised private partner
6. Slow the deliveries of P-8 - we've managed for several years with no Marine (sic) Patrol Aircraft - 5 would be better than none
8. Pull out of Bahrain, Kenya & Cyprus
9. Drastically reduce the number of SOs, HQs, Whitehall staffs
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Roland - I don't disagree with you - honestly. I think we need to INCREASE the military budget
But IF cuts come - which most people think they will - I doubt the MoD will have much say - it'll be the Treasury and the politicians. Just repeating that all these thing are necessary never got us very far................
But IF cuts come - which most people think they will - I doubt the MoD will have much say - it'll be the Treasury and the politicians. Just repeating that all these thing are necessary never got us very far................
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A Van, yes there has been a demand for the sum of 100 billion Euro's in Brexit reparations. Most of us agree the UK is prepared to pay what it owes...but being as the only identified expense was pensions and the total demanded adds up to over €2,000,000 per EU employee it does seem rather high. Your "gangsta song" description is close to the mark and we may be in for a "hard Brexit" whatever anyone in UK wants. The only remotely comparable situation (which I agree isn't strictly comparable) was France leaving NATO. This imposed major costs on remaining members and France took possession of several expensively NATO funded bases. They paid, ...er, nothing at all! You're right again that minimising such a bill in order to minimise cuts to forces (and everything else!) ought to have been top of the list for whoever won the election. One candidate stated in advance that he would not leave negotiations without a deal at any price. Hardly a strong negotiating position. Fortunately (although he did better than expected) he didn't win.
Last edited by ShotOne; 12th Jun 2017 at 22:16.
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TM will do whatever it takes to get the Queen's Speech voted thru, then the next 18 months will just be brexit negotiations...anything REMOTELY resembling tricky domestic legislation will be unceremoniously dropped kicked down the road and into the long grass for future governments to deal with. And that includes non-legislative actions (like Budgets, which will be as bland as ****)
And so it begins...
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TBH I think most of them work pretty long hours overall - but a lot of it is wasted time - trooping through Division Lobbies instead of pressing a button to vote, hanging around Westminster as lobby fodder
TBH 650 MP's is FAR too many as well
TBH 650 MP's is FAR too many as well
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Bit in the Telgraph today, MOD had declared that Apache was to be ordered on a one for one basis (50). Boeing CEO revealed before Paris Air Show that only 38, plus appropriate spares, have ordered.
MOD protest a second tranche will be ordered when required. Yeah, right....
MOD protest a second tranche will be ordered when required. Yeah, right....
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Still too many - currently we're third to China (2987 members) & N Korea (687) - at 600 we drop to 7th
I'd say around 400 would be a better number
And a damn sight fewer Lords as well
I'd say around 400 would be a better number
And a damn sight fewer Lords as well
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Lords? The USA has one Senator per state. Four is too few - couldn't fill the ceremonial post - but if you count the counties (England 48, NI 6, Scotland 33 and Wales 13) it comes to a round 100 which seems a sensible total. Then some non-voting hereditary peers could be added to fulfill the additional ceremonial roles and honorary peers who could give speeches to advise could be added for their expertise and as an award, but strictly limited in number - but not with a vote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coun...United_Kingdom
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coun...United_Kingdom
Yes, but the USA uses a federal system, so much of the decision making is done at state level. When you take that into account, I suspect it is much more evenly balanced.
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And I thought I was guilty of thread drift 
ahem...
"We've never seen a Queen's Speech in recent years so shorn of pretty much all significant domestic legislation."
some BBC political dude
Will the Queens Speech be voted down? That outcome is definitely "in play".
If it is will this result in:
[ ] JC as PM?
[X] Another general election?
made my choice, if it happens
What has this got to do with forces cuts?
Not much...they are [probably] gonna happen whatever.
Joking aside, I hope the QS gets though...we all need a break from this and business needs the brexit end game to happen. Plus it would nice if sometime in the next five years our Government could actually...well...govern.
ahem...
TM will do whatever it takes to get the Queen's Speech voted thru, then the next 18 months will just be brexit negotiations...anything REMOTELY resembling tricky domestic legislation will be unceremoniously dropped kicked down the road and into the long grass for future governments to deal with.
some BBC political dude
Will the Queens Speech be voted down? That outcome is definitely "in play".
If it is will this result in:
[ ] JC as PM?
[X] Another general election?
made my choice, if it happens
What has this got to do with forces cuts?
Not much...they are [probably] gonna happen whatever.
Joking aside, I hope the QS gets though...we all need a break from this and business needs the brexit end game to happen. Plus it would nice if sometime in the next five years our Government could actually...well...govern.