Forces braced for more cuts .....
Gentleman Aviator
IIRC in the past the Tories had a Party Leader who was in the Lords and a PM who was in the Commons.
Lord Home (14th Earl of) became leader of the Tory party - and so PM - on 19th Oct '63, while still in the Upper House. On the 23rd Oct, he disclaimed (is that the right word?) his peerage and became Sir Alec (he was a KT) Douglas-Home.
He was elected MP on 12th November (for the [very] safe seat of Kinross and West Perthshire).
So - for 4 days we had a PM in the Lords.
For 20 days a PM who was in neither House.
Thereafter a PM who was an MP.
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Returning to the thread instead of trying to rewrite the election results. We now are likely to get Trident with weapons as opposed to Corbyns white elephant. However, that combined with the carriers will require other capabilities to be diminished.
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Regarding election calls, I suspect we will hear little else from the opposition parties for the next few years.
The Grand Coalition in Italy has been a rolling goat.
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The Grand Coalition in Italy has been a rolling goat.
I'm just back from Italy. Went from Venice to Rome in spotless smooth 300 km/H bullet train (state owned railway), where every passenger by default had to have a seat. Even the bogs were spotless.
Smartly dressed men and beautiful women everywhere I looked, happy smiling people everywhere. Evenings every restaurant packed with families, drinking, eating, laughing. Food amazing.
Ditto Spain, I have family in Granada...wonderful place. Same vibe.
I'm not sure why these countries keep popping up as place that "have gone wrong".
Seriously, I'm genuinely puzzled.
Sorry for the thread drift. Back to politics. Rerun election with Bojo - great plan...that'll put JC in No 10 in an eyeblink.
Re JC and the IRA thing. Nobody under the age of 40 cares. And in all this endless spraff here's a fact you can take to the bank. Every single day more 18 year olds qualify to vote and more old timers shuffle off this mortal coil.
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Where does it go?
£159 Billion on pensions
£146 Billion on health care
£112 Billion on social security
£86 Billion on education
£52 Billion on debt interest
£47 Billion on Defence
etc etc (figures for FY18, including central and local govt funding sourced from ukpublicspending website)
How much is enough? Are prepared to add to the debt mountain by putting our heads in the sand for another 5 years or do we confront it head on and treat the public like adults over what is, and what is not, affordable in the future? Impossible to have a reasonable debate with the weaponisation of the NHS and blanket opposition to discussion on Welfare / immigration with Labour. Blair asked Frank Field to "think the unthinkable" which he did - and got sacked for his trouble as his conclusions were not vote-winning....
£159 Billion on pensions
£146 Billion on health care
£112 Billion on social security
£86 Billion on education
£52 Billion on debt interest
£47 Billion on Defence
etc etc (figures for FY18, including central and local govt funding sourced from ukpublicspending website)
How much is enough? Are prepared to add to the debt mountain by putting our heads in the sand for another 5 years or do we confront it head on and treat the public like adults over what is, and what is not, affordable in the future? Impossible to have a reasonable debate with the weaponisation of the NHS and blanket opposition to discussion on Welfare / immigration with Labour. Blair asked Frank Field to "think the unthinkable" which he did - and got sacked for his trouble as his conclusions were not vote-winning....
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It's kinda funny how often Spain and Italy pitch up as examples of place not to be like.
I'm just back from Italy. Went from Venice to Rome in spotless smooth 300 km/H bullet train (state owned railway), where every passenger by default had to have a seat. Even the bogs were spotless.
Smartly dressed men and beautiful women everywhere I looked, happy smiling people everywhere. Evenings every restaurant packed with families, drinking, eating, laughing. Food amazing.
Ditto Spain, I have family in Granada...wonderful place. Same vibe.
I'm not sure why these countries keep popping up as place that "have gone wrong".
Seriously, I'm genuinely puzzled.
I'm just back from Italy. Went from Venice to Rome in spotless smooth 300 km/H bullet train (state owned railway), where every passenger by default had to have a seat. Even the bogs were spotless.
Smartly dressed men and beautiful women everywhere I looked, happy smiling people everywhere. Evenings every restaurant packed with families, drinking, eating, laughing. Food amazing.
Ditto Spain, I have family in Granada...wonderful place. Same vibe.
I'm not sure why these countries keep popping up as place that "have gone wrong".
Seriously, I'm genuinely puzzled.
The Spanish people are fantastic, I really enjoy their company but you don't see the young in the restaurants because with 40% youth unemployment rate, they have no money. Spains debt to GDP ratio is just about to hit 100%.
Corbyns budget is about wealth transfer not economic growth, so the champagne socialists in their swanky London restaurants will need to tighten their belts to pay for all the "free" gifts on offer.
Regarding comments about the SNP, the 56 seats in 2015 was a complete aberration. Many were won by very small margins with a very high turnout of SNP voters, and over confidence by others. Privately, the party is probably relieved at 35 this time, as a few were won again with small majorities. North Fife by 2, North Perthshire by 20 or so, the latter a traditional Tory heartland.
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Thread could soon well turn into a "Forces braced for more action" type. DUP dictating UK Mainland Govt. policy? That could be very dangerous for peace. Wonder how the forces would cope if God forbid they were tasked to ever return?
We are also in the middle of an ongoing terror campaign in England by this utter death cult, which has cost the lives of many young people recently. And hundreds hurt and injured.
They, the Commons need to get a grip on actual events and reality. I cant see May lasting another two weeks. But who would be any better, in reality? The problems are multiple, international, fast developing and complex.
I've often wondered if the average MP these days is actually capable of governing, of even keeping pace with events in the 21st century world.
With this election, we've lost weeks and weeks of work and decision making- and the final result is yet more chaos.
I'd place our forces under alert, and try and gather them to anticipate future problems that could arise at very short notice.
Are they ready and able today?
We are also in the middle of an ongoing terror campaign in England by this utter death cult, which has cost the lives of many young people recently. And hundreds hurt and injured.
They, the Commons need to get a grip on actual events and reality. I cant see May lasting another two weeks. But who would be any better, in reality? The problems are multiple, international, fast developing and complex.
I've often wondered if the average MP these days is actually capable of governing, of even keeping pace with events in the 21st century world.
With this election, we've lost weeks and weeks of work and decision making- and the final result is yet more chaos.
I'd place our forces under alert, and try and gather them to anticipate future problems that could arise at very short notice.
Are they ready and able today?
Under alert? For what?
Don't you think the alert state is high enough.
Don't you think the alert state is high enough.
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Our banking system did collapse, our political system is in systemic chaos, we have some pretty spectacular debts of our own (and precisely zero plans to deal with them) and one of the many reasons our youth are saying "***** you old timers" is because we expect them to maintain our employment ratio by working in zero hour minimum wage jobs etc etc.
I love this country (esp Scotland where I live) but I don't wear "empire-tinted" glasses. Nor am I an ostrich - there are trouble and hard times ahead, even when someone eventually gets a grip and leads us forward.
And that's more than enough thread drift from me...I'll come back and join in again when something substantial happens...something tells me that won't be too long in the future.
By the way "swanky restaurants"...clearly you don't know me
I love this country (esp Scotland where I live) but I don't wear "empire-tinted" glasses. Nor am I an ostrich - there are trouble and hard times ahead, even when someone eventually gets a grip and leads us forward.
And that's more than enough thread drift from me...I'll come back and join in again when something substantial happens...something tells me that won't be too long in the future.
By the way "swanky restaurants"...clearly you don't know me
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I stand corrected. I recall that furore about having 2 classes of MPs, even though everyone else has 2 sets of MPs. That said, it's been watered down so much that it is pointless, as the rest of the UK can veto English laws but there's no reciprocal rights.
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Our banking system did collapse, our political system is in systemic chaos, we have some pretty spectacular debts of our own (and precisely zero plans to deal with them) and one of the many reasons our youth are saying "***** you old timers" is because we expect them to maintain our employment ratio by working in zero hour minimum wage jobs etc etc......
By the way "swanky restaurants"...clearly you don't know me
By the way "swanky restaurants"...clearly you don't know me
But you are right enough thread drift, I think we need to fix bayonets because someone is panicking
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Have heard and read several times that EU were going to ask UK for a "divorce payment" of some huge amount, Euro 50-100 Bln. Sounds like a "gangsta song", as it is about twice as much as the whole UK defence budget. Perhaps not a "mortal coil" for the entire economy, but (continuining the soliloquy) would "give you pause" in developing some defence projects. With this regard, does not it look as the first priority for the prime minister (no matter what party he or she represents) to be able to reject or minimize such claims?
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van - it's the money we owe or ratehr what the EU thinks we owe
We've comitted to funding things like pensions for EU employees (some of whom are British) - the EU thinks we should cough up to cover the costs = months of argument and ill-feeling on both sides
We've comitted to funding things like pensions for EU employees (some of whom are British) - the EU thinks we should cough up to cover the costs = months of argument and ill-feeling on both sides
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Let's think what COULD be done to save costs - not for one moment do I think this is good, wise or preferable but it may be necessary:-
(I expect to be trashed - fair enough -but if you disagree please let's see your suggestions as to where the cuts should fall rather than just sticking our fingers in our collective ears and saying it can't/won't shouldn't happen))
1. Complete both carriers but immediatly sell/mothball one - be like the French with only one carrier.
2. Cut the number of F-35's accordingly and slow the delivery of the others - purchase and/or upgrade more Typhoons
3. Extend the Trident submarines for a few years - the USN boats aren't being replaced as soon as ours
4. Cancel any development of a new MBT and the Mechanised Infantry vehicle and buy German or American when/if we need them
5. Accelerate the sale of MoD property - maybe using an incentivised private partner
6. Slow the deliveries of P-8 - we've managed for several years with no Marine Patrol Aircarft - 5 would be better than none - the ordered 9 would be better still but the optional total of 32.............................
7. Amalgamate more Army units to get them to workable size -
8. Pull out of Bahrain, Kenya & Cyprus
9. Drastically reduce the number of SO's, HQ's Whitehall staffs - we should benchmark our senior staffing to that of other countries (Israel for example)
I'm sure everyone will have other ideas as to where the cuts could come............... It would be great if there was an INCREASE in spend but reallistically I don't think we have a cat-in-hells chance
PS I've just re-read the National Audit Office Report https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-eq...lan-2016-2026/ - we were already looking at future cuts - they're just going to be worse now
(I expect to be trashed - fair enough -but if you disagree please let's see your suggestions as to where the cuts should fall rather than just sticking our fingers in our collective ears and saying it can't/won't shouldn't happen))
1. Complete both carriers but immediatly sell/mothball one - be like the French with only one carrier.
2. Cut the number of F-35's accordingly and slow the delivery of the others - purchase and/or upgrade more Typhoons
3. Extend the Trident submarines for a few years - the USN boats aren't being replaced as soon as ours
4. Cancel any development of a new MBT and the Mechanised Infantry vehicle and buy German or American when/if we need them
5. Accelerate the sale of MoD property - maybe using an incentivised private partner
6. Slow the deliveries of P-8 - we've managed for several years with no Marine Patrol Aircarft - 5 would be better than none - the ordered 9 would be better still but the optional total of 32.............................
7. Amalgamate more Army units to get them to workable size -
8. Pull out of Bahrain, Kenya & Cyprus
9. Drastically reduce the number of SO's, HQ's Whitehall staffs - we should benchmark our senior staffing to that of other countries (Israel for example)
I'm sure everyone will have other ideas as to where the cuts could come............... It would be great if there was an INCREASE in spend but reallistically I don't think we have a cat-in-hells chance
PS I've just re-read the National Audit Office Report https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-eq...lan-2016-2026/ - we were already looking at future cuts - they're just going to be worse now
Last edited by Heathrow Harry; 11th Jun 2017 at 17:49.
HH
Sadly, this has proven time and again not to generate much money and, due to the cost of building facilities at the new location, is often more expensive than 'mend and make do'.
The only way to make money is for the MOD to become the land developer - that's where the money is.
LJ
Accelerate the sale of MoD property - maybe using an incentivised private partner
The only way to make money is for the MOD to become the land developer - that's where the money is.
LJ
Well if TM manages the impossible and stays on we wont need trident either. JC says he wouldnt use it but mother Theresa said she would but as we now know she is unable to understand the difference between yes and no or stop reversing decisions she took the day before . Not much use to us then so that can go
I think people may be getting a little carried away. Labour and the Tories were both committed to 2% of GDP going in to the election and while a future Corbyn defence review might change things drastically, as might an economic collapse, I'm not sure it's necessary at this stage to plan quite so enthusiastically for something that hasn't happened yet and may not happen.
The article linked at the head of this thread made clear that the main squeeze is in the next year or so - which suggests finding a few more "efficiencies", or re-phasing a delivery or two, might be enough to sort matters.
I remember before SDSR 2015 some on here were similarly queuing up to prophesy swingeing cuts then too, and announcing that there was certainly no money for things like P8...
The article linked at the head of this thread made clear that the main squeeze is in the next year or so - which suggests finding a few more "efficiencies", or re-phasing a delivery or two, might be enough to sort matters.
I remember before SDSR 2015 some on here were similarly queuing up to prophesy swingeing cuts then too, and announcing that there was certainly no money for things like P8...