RAAF 50th Reunion

[pr00ne]

RAAF 50th thread?

What ever happened tonit?

[SpazSinbad]

tonit? Dunno. No.67 Pilot Course 50th anniversary reunion will be held last weekend in August at Point Chook.

[SpazSinbad]

Always a worry to go down the rabbit hole of the past. Here is the badge devised by the 1 BATC 1967 course (Basic Aircrew Training at HMAS Cerberus beginning of 1967).

[Ascend Charlie]

As a matter of interest, Sinbad, was the designer of the badge scrubbed off course?

There is a rather disconcerting history of this happening...

[SpazSinbad]

'Ascend Charlie' I do not know your identity nor where you get your information. Also the No.1 BATC 1967 was not me - I was in No.2 BATC 1967 which started about one month later and then we marked time (my B half went to sea) before going to Point Cook. The badges from BATC were often a collective effort but with one main designer I suppose for the final version. No.2 BATC badge was designed by 'Viking805' who went on No.68 course to become an A4G pilot & CMDR with a long career in RAN.

[Ascend Charlie]

If you were on 67 Course, Sinbad, I don't recognise any of the Navy faces there, sorry. Nor the sailors on 68, though I am familiar with most of the RAAFies on both courses.

On my 84 Course the badge designer didn't make it past BHT at Pearce.

[SpazSinbad]

OK - so you know RAMSDOG! What an outstanding chap he was (did you see the post on this forum about his life - he died a few years ago now). I was at RANC in 1966 with him - the great glider pilot. We met up again after his flying courses at NAS Nowra on VC-724 then he started his A4G course. Dave had a great career with a two year exchange in RN FAA flying the Harrier. I'll find the thread.... http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...og#post7478241 His BIO: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=CBCD6...340707E6%21116

There are two PDFs about Dave - try this one: https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=CBCD6...%21116&o=OneUp (PDF 25.5Mb)

Wilson went to Trackers but bombed out going back to fishheadland and sadly he died many years ago now. Also our great FLYING DOCTOR Mick Flynn was on your course. Mick had a great doctor career in RAN reaching high rank Surgeon Commodore. He learnt to fly the A4G but did not carry out any armament training [do no harm doctore] but he did advise on our issues such as the 'high G at low level COUGH' (medical term I can never remember). acceleration atelectasis

84 Pilot Course Photos:
RAAF Radschool Association - Course Photos

[Ascend Charlie]

Yes, Dave was my best man at my second wedding, and very sad about his sudden departure. Bill's wife Jill comes to our course reunions - big one coming up next year, though for 21 Academy rather than 84 Pilots. Our other sailors were Concrete Boots, now in CASA, and Tom Hopeless who went to the airlines after failing Trackers like Bill.

I had a minor part in the training of Vincenzo di P (known as Nick da Petrol) who has gone on to bigger things after leaving the navy, and also in Midshipman Skinsbin who is still doing big things but as a crab.

[SpazSinbad]

Heheh. It is a small world eh. Yes Bill & Jill. Jill was the best girlfriend of an old Brizzie girlfriend Arlie; so I knew Bill at RANC also in 1966; then Arlie/Jill when visiting Brisbane in 1967 aboard HMAS Anzac. I do not know VdiP but he went to LM Oz - no? Middie Binnie - WOW. What a career. I would like to meet him one day to reminisce about the 'rabbit hole' that was the now folded fixed wing RAN FAA.

[SpazSinbad]

My BATC 2/67 almost followed these chaps to USofA USN training but exingencies and all that they were the last to go. All following BATCs stayed in Oz to befuddle the crabs. Photo from http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default...ary-6-1967.pdf All of the USN trained carried out their first deck landings in the T-28C - not possible with CRAB training.

[SpazSinbad]

OMG - the boyos wot made it to the 50th reunion at Point Cook, 26 Aug 2017. I recognize some faces but will have to puzzle some others. Photo taker may provide some help so names may come later as I do not want to embarrass anyone. Backdrop is some kind of 50 year old RAAF crate wot some flew all those almost many years ago - often in dangerous places to boot.

Standing L-R: Andy Perry; Barry Dick; Warren Taske; Mike Lewino (QFI); Frank Robinson; Murray Smythe (No.68 course); Ray Borysewicz; Ray Conroy; Peter Bysouth; Phil Smith; Ken Scott; Rob Paige (QFI)

Front L-R: Lang Kidby; Denis Gardiner; Roger Brewster; Bob Redman; Frank Burke; Graham Dutton; Adrian Slootjes; Alf Allen

[SpazSinbad]

Lengthy history of Point Cook down the years - sadly not a lot of info about the Winjeel era but given the 'history' otherwise provided this is an excellent read. Good to see that at last the history of the site is recognized and it will be preserved (for now anyway).

An Interesting Point a history of military aviation at Point Cook 1914-2014 / Steve Campbell-Wright

“...Australia’s commitment to the Vietnam War in the early 1960s increased the demand for pilots, and airline pilot recruitment campaigns accounted for many pilot discharges. So, pilot training at Point Cook was placed under considerable pressure as the expected annual graduation rate increased from 38 before 1964 to 100 by 1968. In addition to this, Point Cook trained pilots for the Navy and Army at a rate of 12 and 28 each year respectively. On busy days, it was not unusual to have four parallel runways operating at Point Cook as aircraft also departed for training at Laverton and Bacchus Marsh. There could be over a dozen aircraft in the circuit at one time....” (page 176)
&
“...The last RAAF Academy graduation parade—that of No 35 Course—was held on 11 December 1985, and was reviewed by the Governor-General, Sir Ninian Stephen, in front of a record audience of 1500 dignitaries and family members. The Queens’ Colour for the RAAF Academy was laid up in the Officers Mess after the parade, and a handling display of the latest F/A-18 Hornet jet fighter was given by Flight Lieutenant Mark Binskin [ex-A4G now CDF]. Some 660 students had graduated from the RAAF College and RAAF Academy in their near four-decade existence...” (page 190)
&
“...The move from the southern tarmac into the RAAF Academy buildings provided something of a breath of fresh air for Officers’ Training School, literally in fact, because the summer aroma of rotting seaweed provided a foul smell remarked on by all who worked there. It is debatable whether the seaweed was the cause, because once improvements were made to the Board of Works sewerage farm settling tanks at Werribee South in the late 1990s, the seaweed did not seem to smell as much....” http://www.radschool.org.au/Books/An...ng%20Point.pdf (15Mb)

[Ascend Charlie]

Sinbad, that circuit depicted above must have been mighty tight, if flown at 325'. But it shows that the aircraft might still be climbing at the end of the crosswind turn - possibilities are:
a. VERY small circuit; or
b. VERY underpowered aircraft.

Picture of Point Cook doesn't show the east-west grass very clearly, or grass 13/31 which was often misread from the other end and students joined for the wrong direction.

Bluddy salt lake, ran around that one far too often. Visited the sightboard a couple of times too.

[SpazSinbad]

Having never flown the T-28C Trojan but having heard / read comments about them I do not believe it was an underpowered aircraft. Bear in mind the diagrams are just that and probably not an actual circuit laid out exactly to scale; however carrier circuits are tight relative to the aircraft being used. For example early A4G carrier/MADDL/FCLP circuits (daytime only) were not done at NATOPS circuit height of 600 feet but at the old/bold Sea Venom height of 400 feet. My early circuits around MELBOURNE were at 400 feet in the A4G and that was tight indeed but rewarding because the mirror could be flown from about half way around a level base turn, whilst the straightaway could be shorter. However the two first A4G LSOs eventually convinced our CO that circuits should be at NATOPS height which meant a descending base turn - more difficult to manage rather than a level base turn to pick up the ball in the mirror etc. whilst the groove length was longer allowing more errors to creep.

Night Carrier Circuit Practice / Work Ups MADDLS Mirror Assisted Dummy Deck Landings at NAS Nowra were done on the airfield with all lights out including base & married quarters with only some portable limpet lights on the left side of runway (usually 26 with downdraught) marking out the carrier deck using the portable mirror with LSOs grading. Circuit height was 1400 feet (1000 AGL) because NIGHT and we did not turn downwind after a touch and go lower than circuit height but an A4G at Max Carrier Landing Weight or below was a rocket so no biggie. However the descending base turn meant we were longer in the groove from the extra height. Night Carrier Landings were done from a straight in approach via CCA (Carrier GCA) because we had no other appropriate avionics to use.

I recall very few runners to the sight boards at the CHOOK and I think those were the early RAAFies doing their introduction to it all (before Navy/ARMY arrived). Yes the grass parallel runways were usually always in use. I landed dual once on a taxiway in the strong winds - we were not allowed to do that solo IIRC. Lost an instructor and an ARMY student when the right wing folded during a low level steep turn over on the Bellarine Peninsula Low Flying area. I'd have to look up the names. I do not recall anyone ground looping from an unlocked tailwheel whilst there but the HORROR stories.... :-)

"...Winjeel A85-416 CA25-16 Crashed 05/03/68, Port Arlington VIC.
The RAAF instructor Flight Lieutenant W. Clarke and Army trainee pilot 2nd Lieutenant J. Mayhew were killed when low flying in strong wind conditions. The starboard wing failed under G loading, either due to the severe turbulence from strong winds at low level or the result of a low level rolling pullup that exceeded the structural G limits." http://www.adf-serials.com/2a85.htm

No.67 Course upon arriving at Point CHOOK photos here: http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%2...s/67Pilots.htm

Pilot Course NAME List: http://www.radschool.org.au/Course%2...ot%20Names.pdf (3Mb)

I can remember 'the ARMY Mayhew' but cannot find a photo for him or the Pilot Course he was on. There was an 'RAAF Mayhew' on No.63 course but not him.

Had a discussion about the details on the ADFserials Forum (I'm LUIG - my last RAN nickname as in "Ah Luig" "Geez Luig" (wot have you done today - badly?) :-)

http://www.adf-messageboard.com.au/i...1050&hl=mayhew

03.05.68 {US Date format} Flight Lieutenant W. Clarke Bellarine Peninsula, VIC Winjeel crashed during a training sortie

03.05.68 2nd Lieutenant J. Mayhew Bellarine Peninsula, VIC Winjeel crashed during a training sortie

http://www.ispa.asn.au/inmemoryof.html

Murray Smythe tells me there were no ARMY studs on No.68 course - I think 'Barry' Mayhew was a late addition to our No.67 course? (or perhaps No.69?) but because 'ARMY' officer in Occifer Mess us blogs did not see much of the occifers. :-)

[SpazSinbad]

Two Short Clips about T-28C Trojan Carrier Circuits (some repetition).

You Tube

You Tube

[megan]

VERY underpowered aircraft

Flew the 28C off the Lex. Weight about 8,000lb and 1,425HP, underpowered it was not. Instructors used to win beers by betting USAF F-4 jocks passing through that they could beat them from brakes off to 10,000. Don't know the veracity, but instructors who had shares in a P-51 said it outperformed the 51 except in flat chat level speed. As it was built by the same maker (North American) could expect some similarities I guess. Rate of roll had to be reduced to a standard suitable for trainees it was said.

[Ascend Charlie]

Us Huey drivers at Willy SAR Flight had a bet with the Mirage drivers that we could beat them to 2000'.

From a standing start, outside the aircraft, shut down.

Nobody challenged us. Pack of wimps.

[SpazSinbad]

Thanks for pics 'megan' - I had purloined them earlier from your OLD GETtoGether cache and they have pride of place in the 4.4GiggleBite PDF in the early pages about those having trained in the USofA circa/circus mid to late 1960s.

“...RAN trainee pilots flew the T28C Trojan to the Lexington when in basic training (Squadron VT-5), as did those that did their S2 Tracker training with the USN. ‘Qualification’ required a minimum of four acceptable arrests, usually with a touch-and-go first. Takeoff in the T28 was ‘free deck’ (catapult not used), and I remember it was quite unnerving to see 30 or 40 knots on the ASI as you went off the bow. The date was 6th July 1967, and the aircraft BuWeps number was 140610.

(For your readers, the ‘Charlie’ model was equipped with a tail hook and reduced diameter propeller and so could operate from carriers. The other T28 flown was the ‘Bravo’ model with no hook and larger diameter prop).

Of interest is the deck. As an old WW2 era carrier which originally operated all prop aircraft, the flight deck had a layer of wooden blocks (akin to cobblestones) on it. The reason was that a "prop strike" on wood did less damage to the prop/engine than steel. There was also less chance of major steel-on-steel sparking during a strike, plus repairs to the deck meant just changing the damaged blocks. Prop strikes were the reason for the reduced diameter prop on the T28C....” John ‘Bomber’ Brown [Iroquois RANFAA contingent No.9 Sqdn RAAF Vietnam then Wessex then Helo Instructor BritLand] ‘Slipstream’ FAAA magazine 2002, Vol.13 No.4

So 'Ascend Charlie' I imagine you know (at least some of) the RAAF Iroquois jocks in No.67 course? We lost two in a 'mast bump' near Canberra episode in 1969 (I'll have to check). Bob Redmond went on to be a Helo Test Pilot AFAIK.

"Iroquois A2-386 UH-1B 62-4608 386 ...Crashed 02/04/69, Captains Flat NSW. Main rotor separated in mid-flight and crashed at Captain's Flat, NSW. Crew; PLTOFF E. Collett, (Pilot) & FLGOFF I. McLean. This was 2 months after the crash of A2-719 in similar circumstances. http://www.adf-serials.com.au/3a2.htm

[Ascend Charlie]

KNOW them???

I've f****ed them!

[SpazSinbad]

That is helpful.