Iran

[LongTimeInCX]

Originally Posted by Goanna01

Also, the Dena is listed as having a ASW Bell 212, was it onboard? (Desperately looking for an aviation angle)

I was looking yesterday for photos of the Dena at VVZ, for the MILAN2026, and in the only ones I could find, the presence of the helicopter was inconclusive. Whether it had wokka-wokka’d away somewhere, or been tucked away just forward of the ships LZ, it’s hard to say.

However, if it was on board, it now identifies as a submarine.

[Goanna01]

Originally Posted by BBadanov

This does not matter a jot. It is war. They were not going to get safe passage.
It's a grey target. A target's a target.

I don’t disagree, I was just wondering what they were trying to achieve by putting to sea rather than heading for a neutral port.
Where were they going and why?

[West Coast]

Originally Posted by Goanna01

As a civilian, I’m curious but clueless as to what the Dena’s intentions were.
They must have known that the war had started and that most of the Iranian navy had been sunk and that there was a massive force between them and their home port. They clearly couldn’t have made it home safely and if they wanted to take refuge in a neutral port they could have stayed in India or Sri Lanka.
So what was the plan?
Also, the Dena is listed as having a ASW Bell 212, was it onboard? (Desperately looking for an aviation angle)

A relevant question I’d say. I imagine the skipper and all the sailors aboard swore an oath to defend Iran. Sitting in a neutral port deciding to sit out a conflict (short of orders to do so) would be in contrast to that oath.

[ORAC]

I didn’t think Trump was that angry with Starmer….
[QUOTE]https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2029643662330642898?s=20
[/QUOTE]

​​​​​​​Faytuks Network: At least 9 U.S. MC-130J special operations aircraft have arrived at RAF Mildenhall (UK) over the past few days, most arriving at night with tail numbers covered and not appearing on tracking sites, according to our local observer

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

Your description of why HMS Dragon is delayed makes perfect sense, but it does raise the question of WHY the RN chose to deploy that vessel and not one of the other two or three operational T45 Destroyers?

What other two or three operational T45's...?

In fact Duncan was the only one of the six that was active and operational at the time, and had just returned from live fire exercises off the Welsh coast. The question is why she wasn't sent, she'd be in the Med by now at least. Daring, Diamond & Defender are in long term refits (Daring now for over 8 years, Defender for nearly 3 years & Diamond for over 2 years) which leaves Dragon and Dauntless. Dauntless had only just gone into a Maint period the week or so before, and Dragon had gone into a Maint just before Xmas, so, for whatever reason it was deemed Duncan couldn't go, Dragon was the only choice, being closer to end of Maint period, but wasn't going to be immediately available to go.

[Strucky]

Serious question, how can a ship be in maintenance for 8 years (or 2 or 3 years)?

[nomorecatering]

Dumb Question: How does a ship surrender? A white flag up the mast? Is there a 'we surrender" flag?

Found n interesting video, EPIC FURY animated.

You Tube

[ORAC]

Video of the earlier shooting down of one of the F-15Es....

https://x.com/clashreport/status/202...023994948?s=20

[Brewster Buffalo]

Originally Posted by nomorecatering

Dumb Question: How does a ship surrender? A white flag up the mast? Is there a 'we surrender" flag?

I don't know but in WW1 the U-boat would approach the ship..indicate it intended to sink it and invite the crew to abandon it. Once that happened the ship would be sunk by gunfire. Not really practical these days but the sub could have informed the Sri Lankan authorities of the sinking without any risk to itself. Might have saved a few lives.

[ORAC]

Will the USN board and seize them as they leave the Gulf?

https://x.com/TankerTrackers/status/...547807426?s=20

​​​​​​​Over the past year, Iran has exported 1.65 million barrels of crude oil per day. Today, they are loading 8 million barrels at Kharg Island.

If they don't, then there is a risk that the storage tanks on shore will hit capacity and the country will have to wind down its oil production the way Iraq recently announced.

​​​​​​​

[ORAC]

.............

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/20...339581538?s=20

U.S. officials tell CBS News that a total of three MQ-9 “Reaper” Surveillance and Attack Drones with the U.S. Air Force have been downed so far during Operation Epic Fury.

It's not clear where exactly the three drones crashed, but one of the Reapers attempted to crash off the coast of Iran, while another is believed to have been shot down during a “friendly fire” incident by Qatar.
​​​​​​​

[AnglianAV8R]

Originally Posted by Strucky

Serious question, how can a ship be in maintenance for 8 years (or 2 or 3 years)?

T45 has serious issues with propulsion systems. Intercoolers in particular are problematic and the design would not be a good choice for the Armilla patrol.

[SLXOwft]

Originally Posted by AnglianAV8R

T45 has serious issues with propulsion systems. Intercoolers in particular are problematic and the design would not be a good choice for the Armilla patrol.

Dragon is one of the three T45s to have received the PIP power generation upgrade to address the issue caused with the intercoolers by electrical power demand in excess of what they could previously cope with.

[Biggus]

I thought I read somewhere that Dragon hadn't yet received the Sea Ceptor upgrade, but Duncan had?

I see that the latest quote from John Healey is that Dragon will arrive "in the next couple of weeks", implying she won't be departing any time soon.

[SLXOwft]

There is some irony in the fact that it will probably all be over before Dragon arrives to provide ABM protection for the in theatre Dragon Lady - which is almost certainly what the Iranians were ineffectively targetting. The T45 Sea Ceptor upgrade programme was planned to finish in 2031 (nine years after announcement). Duncan is due to enter refit (including PIP ) this spring, so deploying her was not on the cards.

I think Defender is the only one with Sea Ceptor (but I may be wrong) and that Duncan will get it as part of her refit.

[langleybaston]

Originally Posted by Strucky

Serious question, how can a ship be in maintenance for 8 years (or 2 or 3 years)?

Incompetence, malign influences, inept government, useless workforce to name but a few.
I could actually sit here and weep for my country ........... glad my father never lived to see it.

[Frostchamber]

Neither Dragon nor Duncan have yet received the Sea Ceptor upgrade. Defender is first in line and is expected to rejoin the fleet, post-upgrade, later this year.

I believe the T45s are also receiving ongoing, iterative upgrades in relation to anti ballistic missile capability. I think I'm right in saying that Dragon was involved in related trials last year, so it may be that, in addition to being one of only two T45s available for deployment at reasonably short notice, she is also relatively well placed in relation to T45 ABM capability.

Also, as others have noted, Dragon has received the PIP upgrade whereas Duncan hasn't.

[SLXOwft]

With Daring it was a way to cover up effectively reducing the fleet size - initially she was laid up ostensibly due to manning issues in 2017, there was a partial refit in Pompey between 2019 and 2021 before being sent to Birkenhead to be cut open to allow the PIP upgrade. While there she was apparently stripped of many parts to keep her sisters in service (another short term money saving practice). Hence, there was a lot more to do when she came home than there should have been. I assume it was also too late / expensive to include her Sea Ceptor upgrade in this cycle.

We do seem to be in danger of taking this thread under way but not under command.


P.S. I meant to say a ship refit is not the equivalent of a car service, if you have lots of ships you can mantain a large skilled work force to enable you to do it more quickly but a lot still has to be done in a specific order especially when fitting new machinery, weapons, sensors, and their supporting systems.

[Not_a_boffin]

Originally Posted by pr00ne

Er, because the RAF HAS NO GBAD of any kind and hasn't had since the 1990's when the Bloodhound force was retired without replacement and the RAF Regiment Rapier force handed over to the Army.

Your description of why HMS Dragon is delayed makes perfect sense, but it does raise the question of WHY the RN chose to deploy that vessel and not one of the other two or three operational T45 Destroyers?

I know they haven't had GBAD since the Rocks had it taken off them. Whether that was a sensible decision is one for the CAS of the day, given their role. It is however, unarguable that the RA have GBAD and could be there an awful lot quicker than deploying a ship 2000 miles. Hence the riposte to the original cheap shot on "teaching the RN what rapid response means" made in the original WAR ROLE for REDS threat (where this came from when the mods got a bit over-active) and again for avoidance of doubt, not crab-bashing..

As for the T45, Duncan is due on a NATO tasking and Dauntless is in for a quick fleet time support period. No easy answers. Overall, lack of direction from PJHQ/StratHQ or whatever its called now.

[Not_a_boffin]

Originally Posted by Strucky

Serious question, how can a ship be in maintenance for 8 years (or 2 or 3 years)?

Quite simple. Lack of spares and logistic support. Daring went into extended readiness after Dauntless (when she went to get her PIP). She had a lot of work done in Portsmouth on the upkeep and combat system side, before she was towed to Cammell Laird for her PIP. Trouble was, due to lack of spares in the logs chain, she was STOROBed to keep the other ships going. Which in turn hampered her regeneration in Birkenhead, to the extent she was towed back to Pompey to finish commissioning of the plant. Notable that Lairds didn't get another PIP job - because trying to secure commissioning engineers and a functional plant was too difficult, 300 miles from her base.

She's due on trials late summer. Definitely not a thing to repeat, but absolute exemplar of why cutting the logs contracts (dates back to original T45 contracts) is always a bad idea. She will at least come out again, which many have doubted over the years.....