Chuck Yeager dislikes the British
My No1 son, a British test pilot, was in the departure lounge at Blagnac, some 3 years ago, waiting for a flight and spotted Yeager who is one of his heroes. He went over and exchanged pleasantries which culminated in them posing together for a photo. I don't think there was any evidence of anti -Britishness by Yeager on that occasion.
As for heroes who were despised by their colleagues, Max Hastings in his book 'Warriors' has a bit to say about it - one of the subjects is the WW2 bomber hero, not Cheshire of course.
What a lot of 'The Cousins' either forget or did not know in the first place, is that Hitler declared war on the USA after Pearl Harbor (I Grudgingly use the American spelling as it is a proper noun! ) and not the other way around.
As for heroes who were despised by their colleagues, Max Hastings in his book 'Warriors' has a bit to say about it - one of the subjects is the WW2 bomber hero, not Cheshire of course.
What a lot of 'The Cousins' either forget or did not know in the first place, is that Hitler declared war on the USA after Pearl Harbor (I Grudgingly use the American spelling as it is a proper noun! ) and not the other way around.
I respect Gen Yeager's accomplishments, and his military service. But as a retired USAF officer I do NOT share his opinion of the British. I am grateful that my country has such a friend in this troubled world.
We truly are "divided" by somewhat different cultures and a common language. The way one handles such differences demonstrates his world view, whether provincial or sophisticated. But I have had no trouble making friends and enjoying the company of British citizens.
We truly are "divided" by somewhat different cultures and a common language. The way one handles such differences demonstrates his world view, whether provincial or sophisticated. But I have had no trouble making friends and enjoying the company of British citizens.
I've often felt he may be one of those people whose professional capabilities one can admire while almost despising them as a person - like John Wayne and Michael Schumacher.
I could believe it. OTOH I met Jeremy Clarkson and found him to be an intelligent, erudite and well-read chap who made the 4-hour delay in the upper class lounge at LAX just fly by. Not at all like his on-screen persona.
I've also met Gyles Brandreth and (again) I do not agree with any of his political views, but would very much enjoy his company at a dinner party.
PDR
I've also met Gyles Brandreth and (again) I do not agree with any of his political views, but would very much enjoy his company at a dinner party.
PDR
After my initial post going "below the line" about my personal interaction with Yeager I'm going back above the line because the "dinner party" with aviators comment struck a chord.
I would go with:
Hanna Reich (yes, even with her post-war comments about Naziism)
Werner Voss
Bill Beaumont (so we could argue about the Lightning)
Bill Gunston (so he could argue with everyone, about everything)
Robin Olds (what a life that guy had)
Barnes Wallis (because every pilot needs to be reminded that they don't actually make the planes, they just fly them)
Each to his own.
I would go with:
Hanna Reich (yes, even with her post-war comments about Naziism)
Werner Voss
Bill Beaumont (so we could argue about the Lightning)
Bill Gunston (so he could argue with everyone, about everything)
Robin Olds (what a life that guy had)
Barnes Wallis (because every pilot needs to be reminded that they don't actually make the planes, they just fly them)
Each to his own.
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Chuck Yeager dislikes the British.
Chuck Yeager dislikes the British
I dislike Chuck Yeager.
(reminds me of:
"God is dead - Nietzsche"
"Nietzsche is dead (d.1900) - God"
(supposedly graffiti on London Underground)
In the course of my long and undistinguished "career", I have met many American Gentlemen (and I use the word advisedly). I am for ever grateful to General "Hap" Arnold for givimg me my flying training in the USAAC, and have grateful memories of the hospitality lavished on us by the American people when we were there.
I am sorry for the wartime sneer "Overfed...etc". Was it their fault that our Government would not pay its troops properly ? (note that [I believe] the RCAF paid just as well as the US - but the slur was not applied to them).
Was it their fault that our Government would not kit ours out with smart uniforms ? And why should they not be well fed, coming as they did from a land of plenty (we have plenty of food now - and just look at us !)
It was pure "sour grapes" of course. They got the girls because they had the money (and the Marlboros, the Hershey bars and the nylons helped), they were smart, they could jitterbug - and they were simply different.
We were in a life-or-death struggle together in those years (and may yet again be so); we were basically the same people; it cannot be wished away now.
Danny.
I dislike Chuck Yeager.
(reminds me of:
"God is dead - Nietzsche"
"Nietzsche is dead (d.1900) - God"
(supposedly graffiti on London Underground)
In the course of my long and undistinguished "career", I have met many American Gentlemen (and I use the word advisedly). I am for ever grateful to General "Hap" Arnold for givimg me my flying training in the USAAC, and have grateful memories of the hospitality lavished on us by the American people when we were there.
I am sorry for the wartime sneer "Overfed...etc". Was it their fault that our Government would not pay its troops properly ? (note that [I believe] the RCAF paid just as well as the US - but the slur was not applied to them).
Was it their fault that our Government would not kit ours out with smart uniforms ? And why should they not be well fed, coming as they did from a land of plenty (we have plenty of food now - and just look at us !)
It was pure "sour grapes" of course. They got the girls because they had the money (and the Marlboros, the Hershey bars and the nylons helped), they were smart, they could jitterbug - and they were simply different.
We were in a life-or-death struggle together in those years (and may yet again be so); we were basically the same people; it cannot be wished away now.
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 6th Oct 2016 at 18:33. Reason: Spell !
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I spent many of my 'Cold War' years working with/controlling Americans, and have subsequently a lot of time on 'vacation' in the USA where I have acquired several ex-US Mil buddies. They seem[/ed] like fairly normal people to me, and we tease each other appropriately all the time about our various differences. Of course, these are 'normal' people, not high-flying super-stars.
I found the reading about Yeager rather sad.
I found the reading about Yeager rather sad.
Danny42C: nice to see a bit of wisdom dropped into a thread full of nonsense.
A few points to remember (as Chuck was of Danny's vintage):
Another point: early in his service in the war, after his first air to air victory, he was shot down, evaded, and made it back and rejoined the fight. (He had to "fight city hall" and army Brass to get back into the fight, with a war going on. Weird world, it is).
That, ladies, is enough for me to suggest that some of you need to re-cage your gyros.
The points on his not transitioning well into the jet age test pilot requirement strikes me as something wrong with the USAF at the time. Here they had a talented pilot, who was reasonably intelligent. Maybe they offered him a shot at a degree, maybe they didn't. (Maybe he wasn't interested). The quoted criticism on the NF-104 strikes me as a fair critique of not flying the test profile that was planned. That will get anyone into trouble in a flight test program. (And there were a lot of dead bodies among test pilots in the 40's and 50's ...) Maybe it was just as well that he went back to the regular Air Force.
=====
So he's now a grumpy old man. FFS, he's 93. He's earned the right. For those who argue that style counts, it does, and that goes double for colonels and generals.
Mixed bag, but some of your vitriol is misplaced.
My own experiences: I've worked with officers from many countries, and plenty of Brits. In the main, the Royal Marines and Naval officers (save for one insufferable git) have been great to work with or for. RAF mostly good experiences. The Army? Two insufferable arrogant jagovs, (one LTC and one COL) the rest great.
A few points to remember (as Chuck was of Danny's vintage):
Originally Posted by excerpt from an on line bio
Yeager's career began in World War II as a private in the United States Army Air Forces. After serving as an aircraft mechanic, in September 1942 he entered enlisted pilot training and upon graduation was promoted to the rank of flight officer ... He finished the war with 11.5 official victories, including one of the first air-to-air victories over a jet fighter (a German Messerschmitt Me 262).
That, ladies, is enough for me to suggest that some of you need to re-cage your gyros.
The points on his not transitioning well into the jet age test pilot requirement strikes me as something wrong with the USAF at the time. Here they had a talented pilot, who was reasonably intelligent. Maybe they offered him a shot at a degree, maybe they didn't. (Maybe he wasn't interested). The quoted criticism on the NF-104 strikes me as a fair critique of not flying the test profile that was planned. That will get anyone into trouble in a flight test program. (And there were a lot of dead bodies among test pilots in the 40's and 50's ...) Maybe it was just as well that he went back to the regular Air Force.
=====
So he's now a grumpy old man. FFS, he's 93. He's earned the right. For those who argue that style counts, it does, and that goes double for colonels and generals.
Mixed bag, but some of your vitriol is misplaced.
My own experiences: I've worked with officers from many countries, and plenty of Brits. In the main, the Royal Marines and Naval officers (save for one insufferable git) have been great to work with or for. RAF mostly good experiences. The Army? Two insufferable arrogant jagovs, (one LTC and one COL) the rest great.
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Yes MPN, so did I.
Seems he ended up with a bit of a chip on his shoulder.
Danny42C's reference to the "Overpaid, etc." brought to mind certain events here in Australia - most notably the "Battle of Brisbane" in November of 1942.
Wikipedia covers it fairly well under the above title.
I must say though, that during a certain unpleasantness in South East Asia around the 60s and 70s, the Yanks and us got on very well together -
both over there and here.
It was indeed our privilege to show them some hospitality when we were on our home turf.
.
Seems he ended up with a bit of a chip on his shoulder.
Danny42C's reference to the "Overpaid, etc." brought to mind certain events here in Australia - most notably the "Battle of Brisbane" in November of 1942.
Wikipedia covers it fairly well under the above title.
I must say though, that during a certain unpleasantness in South East Asia around the 60s and 70s, the Yanks and us got on very well together -
both over there and here.
It was indeed our privilege to show them some hospitality when we were on our home turf.
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 6th Oct 2016 at 19:18.
My first real contact with Americans was while stationed in HQAFCENT. I found them just like us with different accents and slightly better pay (the Canadians were the ones with the big loot).
I think the average American tourist gives the rest a bad name (generalisation I know but speak as you find). One of the worst I ever met was my sister-in-law and she is a Brit who has lived in the USA for years. Total PITA.
I think the average American tourist gives the rest a bad name (generalisation I know but speak as you find). One of the worst I ever met was my sister-in-law and she is a Brit who has lived in the USA for years. Total PITA.
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CY is not the first US officer to form a "hate at first sight" opinion (if that's the right word, I'm struggling again) of the British. The USN's own Admiral King hated us after being disabused by some RN officers allegedly. We can snobbish, cold, aloof and especially in the military. Wasn't a laughing party for those Americans based here in WW2.
Doesn't really change my opinion of Yeager- a tough old SOB who fought it out against the Nazis, on our side. What do we want-snow white? Let him be.
Doesn't really change my opinion of Yeager- a tough old SOB who fought it out against the Nazis, on our side. What do we want-snow white? Let him be.
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I remember Eric Brown telling me he did not like Chuck much. not sure if this stems from the M52 experience. There may have been a bit of history between them.
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I could personally discount the "allegedly", but maybe I got him on a bad day!
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Welsh: Slightly mad, would probably stop a fight in its tracks by simply yelling out 'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch' .
Last edited by PersonFromPorlock; 7th Oct 2016 at 00:31.
I am sorry for the wartime sneer "Overfed...etc". Was it their fault that our Government would not pay its troops properly ? (note that [I believe] the RCAF paid just as well as the US - but the slur was not applied to them).
He told me that the Canadian government decided that it would pay its troops in the U.K. the same as British troops and the balance of their pay went into a bank account in Canada.
A young black USAF chap once told me of some of the experiences of his Grandfather in the UK in WWII. The act of Brits brawling alongside black US personnel against white US personnel who wanted black people barred from pubs had clearly made a deep, multigenerational impression.
A few years ago we spent our summer holiday on Anglesey. We spent hours driving around trying to find this huge beach that was on all the signposts all over the island, but we never did find Traeth Beach.
We also saw the signposts for the Ysbyty hospital, and wondered if there was a corresponding Errbytys hospital, and why these STD clinics were segregated...
PDR
We also saw the signposts for the Ysbyty hospital, and wondered if there was a corresponding Errbytys hospital, and why these STD clinics were segregated...
PDR
Bob Hoover
Now there is an ambassador for US military aviation along with just being the personification of class.
A number of years ago a pilot I know had Yeager onboard heading into Sacramento. A little over the top perhaps but as part of the welcome aboard PA, reference was made to Yeager and his accomplishments. Well after the fact, the company received a warning letter from a lawyer representing Yeager instructing the company to cease using the Generals name. He was/is a regular on the airline, he gets his wish, no one acknowledges the git.
Now there is an ambassador for US military aviation along with just being the personification of class.
A number of years ago a pilot I know had Yeager onboard heading into Sacramento. A little over the top perhaps but as part of the welcome aboard PA, reference was made to Yeager and his accomplishments. Well after the fact, the company received a warning letter from a lawyer representing Yeager instructing the company to cease using the Generals name. He was/is a regular on the airline, he gets his wish, no one acknowledges the git.