Air National Guard fast jet pilots
Thread Starter
Air National Guard fast jet pilots
Trying to understand how the Air National Guard works.
May be someone from the home of the brave can explain it to me.
It's a reserve air force - so does it work the same way as a reserve army?
You're a civilian for most of the year, but on a certain number of days your employer gives you time off, and you do your military service?
If the flag goes up - you get called up.
If that's the way it works, how does that work on fast jet aircraft - in terms of maintaining currency?
I assume that you start off as a regular air force fast jet pilot, then get out and get a job with an airline, but for a few weeks a year, go back to flying F-16s or whatever?
Or have I got it all wrong...?
May be someone from the home of the brave can explain it to me.
It's a reserve air force - so does it work the same way as a reserve army?
You're a civilian for most of the year, but on a certain number of days your employer gives you time off, and you do your military service?
If the flag goes up - you get called up.
If that's the way it works, how does that work on fast jet aircraft - in terms of maintaining currency?
I assume that you start off as a regular air force fast jet pilot, then get out and get a job with an airline, but for a few weeks a year, go back to flying F-16s or whatever?
Or have I got it all wrong...?
Thread Starter
I did.
Not quite.
It's the flying time per year on complex military fast jets I'm asking about.
Not quite the same as rocking up to do your couple of weeks a year as a soldier - an assault rifle is one thing - an F-16, F-15 or in the case of at least two units I can see - an F-22 - is quite another.
Just interested to find out how it works - that's all.
Not quite.
It's the flying time per year on complex military fast jets I'm asking about.
Not quite the same as rocking up to do your couple of weeks a year as a soldier - an assault rifle is one thing - an F-16, F-15 or in the case of at least two units I can see - an F-22 - is quite another.
Just interested to find out how it works - that's all.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Age: 70
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't answer for Air Guard pilots, but I can for Naval Reserve pilots. I spent one or two weekends a month (sometimes more) flying for the Navy, plus a few consecutive weeks per year. I had a commitment to fly X hours per month. Sometimes I could do that on one weekend. Sometimes it took multiple weekends. Sometimes it took a "long" weekend. To maximize my flying time when drilling I made sure I kept in touch with the squadron maintenance officer to ensure jets were available the weekend I was planning to drill, and with the squadron ops and training officers to make sure I got on the flight schedule. I also drilled for 4 to 6 consecutive weeks during the year. I was fortunate to work for a major aerospace company who was very good about giving me time off to drill.
But it also depends on the "level" of your reserve status. There's the "Ready Reserve" and the "Standby Reserve". Ready Reserve is further divided into Selected Reserve and the Individual Ready Reserve. In the Navy there are also TARs (Reservists serving on active duty.) I don't know, but I would guess the Air Guard is similar.
But it also depends on the "level" of your reserve status. There's the "Ready Reserve" and the "Standby Reserve". Ready Reserve is further divided into Selected Reserve and the Individual Ready Reserve. In the Navy there are also TARs (Reservists serving on active duty.) I don't know, but I would guess the Air Guard is similar.
The Air National Guard is very similar to the US Air Force reserve except the commander in chief is the governor of the state rather than the President - unless on federal orders.
Far from being the poor step children of a couple generations ago, the Air Guard is fairly well equipped. In 1990 the South Carolina Air National Guard was the second unit Air Force wide to field what was the latest block F-16 at the time. Several months later they were the first US fighters to land in Saudi Arabia after Saddam invaded Kuwait.
The Georgia Air Guard flew B-1s for quite a while.
MOST of the pilots in the Air Guard have jobs that allow them to fly missions during the week or on some flexible schedule. Lots of airline pilots, I think.
The national commander of the Air Guard makes the claim that the Air Guard and Reserves fly 40% of the USAF missions at 10% the cost. Although that seems to ignore the entire USAF infrastructure that is there 24/7 to support the reserve component mission, it's a reasonable effort to show how it fits.
I read recently that almost all of the USAF tanker missions are flown by Reservists.
From a green rather than blue perspective, much of the US Army's "reserve component" (Army Guard and Army Reserve) heavy equipment is in the Guard while support services are in the reserves. This allows governors access to heavy equipment in the event of emergencies/disasters in their state.
Back to the Air Guard - it is quite possible to join the Air Guard (Army as well) and go to flight school. Typically, these slots are limited and most members join the Guard or Reserves after completing a regular active duty tour.
The US has a far more robust reserve program than most countries. It includes prorated pay and prorated pension. Last month I transitioned to "US Army, retired" 32 years, four months, and 17 days after enlisting for Officer Candidate School. In the 29 years between enlisting and transferring to the "Retired Reserve" I accumulated 13-1/2 years of full-time active duty equivalent - hardly the "weekend a month and two weeks a year" many people assume.
Far from being the poor step children of a couple generations ago, the Air Guard is fairly well equipped. In 1990 the South Carolina Air National Guard was the second unit Air Force wide to field what was the latest block F-16 at the time. Several months later they were the first US fighters to land in Saudi Arabia after Saddam invaded Kuwait.
The Georgia Air Guard flew B-1s for quite a while.
MOST of the pilots in the Air Guard have jobs that allow them to fly missions during the week or on some flexible schedule. Lots of airline pilots, I think.
The national commander of the Air Guard makes the claim that the Air Guard and Reserves fly 40% of the USAF missions at 10% the cost. Although that seems to ignore the entire USAF infrastructure that is there 24/7 to support the reserve component mission, it's a reasonable effort to show how it fits.
I read recently that almost all of the USAF tanker missions are flown by Reservists.
From a green rather than blue perspective, much of the US Army's "reserve component" (Army Guard and Army Reserve) heavy equipment is in the Guard while support services are in the reserves. This allows governors access to heavy equipment in the event of emergencies/disasters in their state.
Back to the Air Guard - it is quite possible to join the Air Guard (Army as well) and go to flight school. Typically, these slots are limited and most members join the Guard or Reserves after completing a regular active duty tour.
The US has a far more robust reserve program than most countries. It includes prorated pay and prorated pension. Last month I transitioned to "US Army, retired" 32 years, four months, and 17 days after enlisting for Officer Candidate School. In the 29 years between enlisting and transferring to the "Retired Reserve" I accumulated 13-1/2 years of full-time active duty equivalent - hardly the "weekend a month and two weeks a year" many people assume.
Guest
Posts: n/a
In the UK, the Royal Auxiliary Air Force did the same job prewar, and after it till 1957.
Its Pilots were committed to two hours ground instruction on a weekday; they flew on Saturdays and Sundays, and attended a two-week "Annual Summer Camp" alongside Regular Squadrons.
They flew the FJs of the day (Meteor and Vampire). There were 22 Squadrons of them (one third of our FJ force); they were reckoned as efficient as a Regular Squadron and got much the same number of hours per month.
They gave outstanding service in the Battle of Britain (many of our top-scoring aces were Auxiliaries); they wore regular uniform (officers wore a little brass "A"s on the lapel, airmen a sewn "A" below the eagle on the sleeve); they were paid as Regulars; of course in my time most of the members were ex-wartime pilots, but National Service pilots were coming in in numbers at the end.
Why were they disbanded ? I reckon the Treasury couldn't afford to kit them out with Hunter or Swift (and most of their pilots were getting a bit long in the tooth).
Danny42C.
Its Pilots were committed to two hours ground instruction on a weekday; they flew on Saturdays and Sundays, and attended a two-week "Annual Summer Camp" alongside Regular Squadrons.
They flew the FJs of the day (Meteor and Vampire). There were 22 Squadrons of them (one third of our FJ force); they were reckoned as efficient as a Regular Squadron and got much the same number of hours per month.
They gave outstanding service in the Battle of Britain (many of our top-scoring aces were Auxiliaries); they wore regular uniform (officers wore a little brass "A"s on the lapel, airmen a sewn "A" below the eagle on the sleeve); they were paid as Regulars; of course in my time most of the members were ex-wartime pilots, but National Service pilots were coming in in numbers at the end.
Why were they disbanded ? I reckon the Treasury couldn't afford to kit them out with Hunter or Swift (and most of their pilots were getting a bit long in the tooth).
Danny42C.
The US ANG now operates units at 16 of the 18 Air Sovereignty Alert Sites (QRA in NATO parlance) and has resolved 3400+ air threats since 2001. [source ANG website].
They currently operate the F-22, F-15C/D and F-16. There is concern about how to recapitalize the F-16 Block 30 fleet around 2020.
A few live scramble take-offs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2VrsRiSjfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfn2_QnlUeU
They currently operate the F-22, F-15C/D and F-16. There is concern about how to recapitalize the F-16 Block 30 fleet around 2020.
A few live scramble take-offs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2VrsRiSjfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfn2_QnlUeU
Spent a bit of time in ANG F-100s & A-7s in the 70s.
ANG pilots were (and I assume still are) authorized 48 AFTPs (Additional Flight Training Periods) per fiscal year. Full day pay for 4 hrs work including what were usually about 1-1.5 hour flights in fighters. You could do two of these a day.
Told my wife one day I was going out to the airport to do an AFTP. She asked, "What does that stand for?....All Farmers Turn (into) Pilots?" If you've ever been to Sioux City IA or Mansfield OH or Terre Haute IN, etc, etc you can appreciate this was not totally off the mark.
About the mid 80s the Guard had a bunch of ambitious guys (ex-reggies) who wanted to 'out-reggie' the regulars and get shiny new equipment instead of hand me downs, and politicked aggressively for more 'respect'. Be careful what you wish for. I'm not sure why these guys got out of the regulars in the first place.
In any case I would offer that AFTP eventually became 'All Fun Terminated Peremptorily'.
ANG pilots were (and I assume still are) authorized 48 AFTPs (Additional Flight Training Periods) per fiscal year. Full day pay for 4 hrs work including what were usually about 1-1.5 hour flights in fighters. You could do two of these a day.
Told my wife one day I was going out to the airport to do an AFTP. She asked, "What does that stand for?....All Farmers Turn (into) Pilots?" If you've ever been to Sioux City IA or Mansfield OH or Terre Haute IN, etc, etc you can appreciate this was not totally off the mark.
About the mid 80s the Guard had a bunch of ambitious guys (ex-reggies) who wanted to 'out-reggie' the regulars and get shiny new equipment instead of hand me downs, and politicked aggressively for more 'respect'. Be careful what you wish for. I'm not sure why these guys got out of the regulars in the first place.
In any case I would offer that AFTP eventually became 'All Fun Terminated Peremptorily'.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 59°09N 002°38W (IATA: SOY, ICAO: EGER)
Age: 80
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the UK, the Royal Auxiliary Air Force did the same job prewar, and after it till 1957.
Its Pilots were committed to two hours ground instruction on a weekday; they flew on Saturdays and Sundays, and attended a two-week "Annual Summer Camp" alongside Regular Squadrons.
They flew the FJs of the day (Meteor and Vampire). There were 22 Squadrons of them (one third of our FJ force); they were reckoned as efficient as a Regular Squadron and got much the same number of hours per month.
They gave outstanding service in the Battle of Britain (many of our top-scoring aces were Auxiliaries); they wore regular uniform (officers wore a little brass "A"s on the lapel, airmen a sewn "A" below the eagle on the sleeve); they were paid as Regulars; of course in my time most of the members were ex-wartime pilots, but National Service pilots were coming in in numbers at the end.
Why were they disbanded ? I reckon the Treasury couldn't afford to kit them out with Hunter or Swift (and most of their pilots were getting a bit long in the tooth).
Danny42C.
Its Pilots were committed to two hours ground instruction on a weekday; they flew on Saturdays and Sundays, and attended a two-week "Annual Summer Camp" alongside Regular Squadrons.
They flew the FJs of the day (Meteor and Vampire). There were 22 Squadrons of them (one third of our FJ force); they were reckoned as efficient as a Regular Squadron and got much the same number of hours per month.
They gave outstanding service in the Battle of Britain (many of our top-scoring aces were Auxiliaries); they wore regular uniform (officers wore a little brass "A"s on the lapel, airmen a sewn "A" below the eagle on the sleeve); they were paid as Regulars; of course in my time most of the members were ex-wartime pilots, but National Service pilots were coming in in numbers at the end.
Why were they disbanded ? I reckon the Treasury couldn't afford to kit them out with Hunter or Swift (and most of their pilots were getting a bit long in the tooth).
Danny42C.
There was a time OK465's description was quite correct. Nowadays, guardsman are putting in serious time--8-10 days a month in fast jets. I went thru UPT to fly ANG F-100s, flew a lot on them, then we moved on to be one if the first units wil brand new A-10s--picked up two from the factory.
GF
GF
Thread Starter
Yep - as a Christchurch boy I grew up watching those grey and dayglo orange Hercs fly over, heading south.
And then in `95 got to experience a ski-equipped landing at Willy Field myself as a pax in the back - smoothest touchdown ever.
Thanks for all the answers guys - very interesting.
And then in `95 got to experience a ski-equipped landing at Willy Field myself as a pax in the back - smoothest touchdown ever.
Thanks for all the answers guys - very interesting.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which also begs the question, what decides which regular unit disbands when a new type comes into the inventory? Presumably the support structure comes from regular squadrons somewhere?
I can't speak to that specifically, but there is a philosophy. Read a great article years ago that discussed the integration of the guard and reserves into the the total force concept. Vietnam was so unpopular that the DoD decided to integrate key pieces of any long term sustained military capability within the guard/reserves. The desired effect was to force civilian leadership to accept that war wouldn't be fought and only seen on the telly at dinner time. The hope was that introducing an airline pilot, a mechanic, a baker, a fireman, etc taken from the local workforce might reduce the potential for long term conflict.
This isn't intended as a kick off to a political discussion, just some insight of the author (a 3 star) into how the guard/reserves evolved from weekend warriors to an intergal part of the day to day operations of the military.
This isn't intended as a kick off to a political discussion, just some insight of the author (a 3 star) into how the guard/reserves evolved from weekend warriors to an intergal part of the day to day operations of the military.
Hempy,
The 509th/131st BW is an associate unit program, so no regular unit had to disband. The 131st moved from Lambert Field STL over to Whiteman AFB. The 131st probably lost some positions in the reorganization move. The 131st pilots, MX & other support troops work along side the regulars on the unit aircraft....both the B-2s & the proficiency support T-38s as well as the admin & intel side. Most of the support structure here comes from the regular side just like the associate Virginia ANG F-22 unit at Langley. To my mind not as good a deal as F-15s at Lambert but better than drones.
An autonomous ANG unit, particularly ones located at 'podunk' civil airports (there are still a bunch) provide the bulk of their own support structure.
Probably the airline traffic count trend at Lambert didn't help....or maybe USAF was still mad about the time one of thei STL F-100s on a 'dry pass' dropped its drop tanks on a barge on the Mississippi. Direct hit. (Barge Captain radioed to his company that he was under attack.) 
The 509th/131st BW is an associate unit program, so no regular unit had to disband. The 131st moved from Lambert Field STL over to Whiteman AFB. The 131st probably lost some positions in the reorganization move. The 131st pilots, MX & other support troops work along side the regulars on the unit aircraft....both the B-2s & the proficiency support T-38s as well as the admin & intel side. Most of the support structure here comes from the regular side just like the associate Virginia ANG F-22 unit at Langley. To my mind not as good a deal as F-15s at Lambert but better than drones.
An autonomous ANG unit, particularly ones located at 'podunk' civil airports (there are still a bunch) provide the bulk of their own support structure.
What did the STL unit do to deserve this?
West Coast,
You're right, it is a philosophical issue.
When 'the balloon went up' in the mid-60s, the ANG with a little prior workup flew their old F-100Cs along side regular F-100Ds in SVN and did a credible job in an unpopular situation. Niagara Falls, Denver, Sioux City & ABQ had no problem being 'called up' and doing the job while understanding they would not have a chance of drawing retirement pay until age 60....if they accumulated an adequate number of points. Columbus OH ANG & Wichita KS ANG filled in at Kunsan in Korea while regular units were transferred to SVN.
The push for Total Force (Two area war philosophy) from both sides changed the ANG effort required dramatically, but did not change the wait for Guard retirement pay, however did result in an attractive increase in number of allotted active duty man-days for the Guard & USAFR per month. In the old system 1 or 2 active duty days per month paid by the Army to support ground FAC training were about all that was available to add to monthly UTA drill, 2 week Summer Camp & 48 AFTP pay. Maybe the Guard pilots are happier now I don't know, but I know in the 'weekend warrior' days I never went in to work without a smile on my face.
Now the balloon is up all the time, but at least ANG/USAFR got a Thunderbird slot as thanks.
You're right, it is a philosophical issue.
When 'the balloon went up' in the mid-60s, the ANG with a little prior workup flew their old F-100Cs along side regular F-100Ds in SVN and did a credible job in an unpopular situation. Niagara Falls, Denver, Sioux City & ABQ had no problem being 'called up' and doing the job while understanding they would not have a chance of drawing retirement pay until age 60....if they accumulated an adequate number of points. Columbus OH ANG & Wichita KS ANG filled in at Kunsan in Korea while regular units were transferred to SVN.
The push for Total Force (Two area war philosophy) from both sides changed the ANG effort required dramatically, but did not change the wait for Guard retirement pay, however did result in an attractive increase in number of allotted active duty man-days for the Guard & USAFR per month. In the old system 1 or 2 active duty days per month paid by the Army to support ground FAC training were about all that was available to add to monthly UTA drill, 2 week Summer Camp & 48 AFTP pay. Maybe the Guard pilots are happier now I don't know, but I know in the 'weekend warrior' days I never went in to work without a smile on my face.
Now the balloon is up all the time, but at least ANG/USAFR got a Thunderbird slot as thanks.