Tornado ADV for sale
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870 kts at low level wouldnt be the ideal time for a birdstrike either 
. Especially with one of those rather stout Upland Geese - although they spent more time wandering around the Q shed than committing aviation.
. Especially with one of those rather stout Upland Geese - although they spent more time wandering around the Q shed than committing aviation.
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John Eacott
Would a Tornado be able to intercept and stay with a M2.0 Concorde for 4 minutes?
Would a Tornado be able to intercept and stay with a M2.0 Concorde for 4 minutes?
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TV, EAP had a CFC wing, foreplanes, front fuse, centre fuse and rear fuse. The fin was adapted from a Tornado one to save time and cost after German industry dropped out.
As it happens the CFC foreplane wasn't too successful because to meet its structural reqts, it was close to being solid carbon and therefore over target weight. This is why Typhoon today has a SPFDB Ti foreplane. (SPFDB Ti could have been a feasible option as the EAP's rear fuse keel was made this way) Such programmes are needed to find out about this sort of issue.
EAP
As it happens the CFC foreplane wasn't too successful because to meet its structural reqts, it was close to being solid carbon and therefore over target weight. This is why Typhoon today has a SPFDB Ti foreplane. (SPFDB Ti could have been a feasible option as the EAP's rear fuse keel was made this way) Such programmes are needed to find out about this sort of issue.
EAP
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TV, sorry missed the performance part of your question. EAP's max pitch rate, roll rate and roll acceleration were all better than ADV but still behind Typhoon. Speed and normal acceleration were cut back a bit because of the lack of a structural test airframe and the odd minor testing hiccough.
EAP
EAP
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Seeing how the ti foreplane was made back in the day was amazing, same with that gel 3D printing from catia, must be 20+ years ago now. Thanks for the information.
A bit of the history of ZD902:
It was converted to be TIARA in the early '90s as a project at DRA Farnborough. The captain was always the rear seat pilot with the pilot evaluating the systems occupying the front cockpit. To get the experimental displays in the front cockpit quite a few displays and controls were relocated to the rear cockpit including the fuel gauges, hydraulic switches and EPS although the engine start panel and X-drive controls remained in the front. One of the worst aspects in the front was that there were no Aj (nozzle) gauges so you relied on the rear seater to call the nozzles when you selected or cancelled reheat. For the early flying the HUD was not operational so all front seat approaches were flown on the small, non-standard standby instruments on the right instrument panel plus the strip AOA gauge - including practise 67 degree swept wing approaches which were interesting! The HUD was the Smiths 'Z' HUD, an early holographic display that had previously been evaluated at Farnborough in a Jaguar T2 (XX835). The biggest problem with it was that it had a very small headbox so even small head movements away from the reference eye position meant that you could not see the symbology.
Its role was to perform research and development tasks into sensor data fusion. Much of the trials equipment was carried in modified fuel tanks carried on the underfuselage shoulder pylons which resulted in quite a restrictive flight envelope. The radar was a Blue Vixen from the Sea Harrier FA2 although its performance was compromised by having the pitot-static boom mounted on the radome. It was also fitted in the late '90s with an IRST mounted on the nose just in front of one corner of the windscreen.
On 18 October 1994, it was the last military aircraft to be flown from Farnborough when it ceased to be a MoD airfield. It then operated at Boscombe Down until its last flight on 30 November 2011. I cannot recall when or precisely what its last trials project was (an IR sensor I think) but in its final months it was used as a support aircraft, including pilot currency flying, in support of the BVRAAM/Meteor missile trials from Boscombe Down.
It is worth remembering that ZD902 was part of a sizable UK MoD R&D Fleet that operated from one of two dedicated UK MoD R&D airfields (Farnborough and Bedford) but they ceased to fulfill this function just over 21 years ago. The dwindling R&D fleet continued at Boscombe Down until not too many years ago with this being one of its last assets. It was a great privilege to have had the opportunity to work in that world on aircraft such as TIARA.
It was converted to be TIARA in the early '90s as a project at DRA Farnborough. The captain was always the rear seat pilot with the pilot evaluating the systems occupying the front cockpit. To get the experimental displays in the front cockpit quite a few displays and controls were relocated to the rear cockpit including the fuel gauges, hydraulic switches and EPS although the engine start panel and X-drive controls remained in the front. One of the worst aspects in the front was that there were no Aj (nozzle) gauges so you relied on the rear seater to call the nozzles when you selected or cancelled reheat. For the early flying the HUD was not operational so all front seat approaches were flown on the small, non-standard standby instruments on the right instrument panel plus the strip AOA gauge - including practise 67 degree swept wing approaches which were interesting! The HUD was the Smiths 'Z' HUD, an early holographic display that had previously been evaluated at Farnborough in a Jaguar T2 (XX835). The biggest problem with it was that it had a very small headbox so even small head movements away from the reference eye position meant that you could not see the symbology.
Its role was to perform research and development tasks into sensor data fusion. Much of the trials equipment was carried in modified fuel tanks carried on the underfuselage shoulder pylons which resulted in quite a restrictive flight envelope. The radar was a Blue Vixen from the Sea Harrier FA2 although its performance was compromised by having the pitot-static boom mounted on the radome. It was also fitted in the late '90s with an IRST mounted on the nose just in front of one corner of the windscreen.
On 18 October 1994, it was the last military aircraft to be flown from Farnborough when it ceased to be a MoD airfield. It then operated at Boscombe Down until its last flight on 30 November 2011. I cannot recall when or precisely what its last trials project was (an IR sensor I think) but in its final months it was used as a support aircraft, including pilot currency flying, in support of the BVRAAM/Meteor missile trials from Boscombe Down.
It is worth remembering that ZD902 was part of a sizable UK MoD R&D Fleet that operated from one of two dedicated UK MoD R&D airfields (Farnborough and Bedford) but they ceased to fulfill this function just over 21 years ago. The dwindling R&D fleet continued at Boscombe Down until not too many years ago with this being one of its last assets. It was a great privilege to have had the opportunity to work in that world on aircraft such as TIARA.
John Eacott
The pic and caption of the "Concorde with Tornado at Mach2" is interesting. To be at that Mach number I believe Concorde would need to be at about 58,000' to be within its KCAS limit. Can ex F3 crew confirm? Of course, in the pic the Concorde could be steaming past or, a lot lower and slower? Cheers
OAP
The pic and caption of the "Concorde with Tornado at Mach2" is interesting. To be at that Mach number I believe Concorde would need to be at about 58,000' to be within its KCAS limit. Can ex F3 crew confirm? Of course, in the pic the Concorde could be steaming past or, a lot lower and slower? Cheers
OAP
PPRuNe Person
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The Concorde story somehow doesn't quite ring true for me.
On airtest you had to check inlet ramp operation, (1.3? can anyone correct me?) did one in the FI and had to call it a day due gas at M1.77. My best at low level was 750 chasing some GR1 Tornados off Cape Wrath, but I know these are small numbers
Can anyone confirm if the 'Goose' bar still exists in the Death Star at MPA? There was a table there made from the wingtip section of an F4....
On airtest you had to check inlet ramp operation, (1.3? can anyone correct me?) did one in the FI and had to call it a day due gas at M1.77. My best at low level was 750 chasing some GR1 Tornados off Cape Wrath, but I know these are small numbers
Can anyone confirm if the 'Goose' bar still exists in the Death Star at MPA? There was a table there made from the wingtip section of an F4....
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Unlike a certain RN Sub Lt in an F3 who went over Arbroath at M1.6 and had the fire brigade racing around town looking for the explosion.
He was delivering a jet from LM to LU in the work up to GW1 when jets were being swapped/modded and took the opportunity with a clean jet jet to see how fast he could go. Hit M2, but didn't realise how far behind the jet the shock wave drag would be and even more shocked when it didn't immediately slow down when he closed the throttles - then was afraid to climb/turn until it did.
Yes, I was controlling him - and we got away with it as I was at Boulmer, and they asked Buchan if they had anything under control, and they said no as they were doing a SIMEX.
Unlike the time the F3 I was controlling did M1.1 down Amble High St at 250ft chasing an F-111. Quite a lot of broken glass and claims from that one......
Happy days.......
He was delivering a jet from LM to LU in the work up to GW1 when jets were being swapped/modded and took the opportunity with a clean jet jet to see how fast he could go. Hit M2, but didn't realise how far behind the jet the shock wave drag would be and even more shocked when it didn't immediately slow down when he closed the throttles - then was afraid to climb/turn until it did.
Yes, I was controlling him - and we got away with it as I was at Boulmer, and they asked Buchan if they had anything under control, and they said no as they were doing a SIMEX.
Unlike the time the F3 I was controlling did M1.1 down Amble High St at 250ft chasing an F-111. Quite a lot of broken glass and claims from that one......
Happy days.......
Or the F3 doing M1.3 at low level in the Nevada Desert that allegedly blew over a Motorhome on the edge of the low level supersonic area on Red Flag (kills a kill) - apparently! 
Not very popular news for the low-level supersonic over helicopter deniers!
LJ
Not very popular news for the low-level supersonic over helicopter deniers!
LJ
Thread Starter
An F-8 recon bird was being stalked by a MiG-21 during a run over Cuba during the missile crisis and the pilot went supersonic at tree top height on the egress to escape detection. As he headed for the coast he saw a bare ridge line ahead of him with a lower "saddle" in the middle that he aimed the nose of his jet at. As he approached he noticed something outlined in the middle of the saddle, it was a burro with his rider, and the guy was busy relieving himself. The pilot wasn't sure of the clearance but he went over the guy's head at maybe 50 feet doing M1.
No it most certainly wasn't me but I always wanted an excuse to tell that one.
A "supersonic tales" thread might be interesting.
No it most certainly wasn't me but I always wanted an excuse to tell that one.
A "supersonic tales" thread might be interesting.
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Just for information, why was the F3 so short lived in service ?, was it true that Bae damaged a batch of them during modification work beyond economical repair and did that play a part in it's demise ?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Air works, not BAe, and no, they repaired them using F2 fuselage sections.
The major reason was the end of the Cold War and subsequent defence reviews which eliminated the Germany and Wattisham based F4s (in the CR role as a dogfighter against Mig 29s) and the Jaguar fleets which the Eurofighter was planned to replace. In order to preserve industrial capability and work share on the Eurofighter programme, and since we were contractually to buy them anyway, the decision was made to use them to replace the UK based long range interceptor F3 fleet instead.
The major reason was the end of the Cold War and subsequent defence reviews which eliminated the Germany and Wattisham based F4s (in the CR role as a dogfighter against Mig 29s) and the Jaguar fleets which the Eurofighter was planned to replace. In order to preserve industrial capability and work share on the Eurofighter programme, and since we were contractually to buy them anyway, the decision was made to use them to replace the UK based long range interceptor F3 fleet instead.
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Here is a link to, Courtney Mil's excellent blog, detailing the Airwork fiasco, scroll down to the text inbetween the images of the AI.24 and the F.3 front cockpit...
Tornado F3 at RAF Leuchars, the AI24 Foxhunter Radar, Op Deny Flight and all about Medicine.
-RP
Tornado F3 at RAF Leuchars, the AI24 Foxhunter Radar, Op Deny Flight and all about Medicine.
-RP