Breaking news on Sky.....

[RAFEngO74to09]

Surviving Russian Nav Interviewed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBmL_5V9TSE

US military spokesman stated on US TV yesterday that US military heard the warnings.

Supposed Turkish AF audio played on US TV within last hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haOGQmn-Yks

[ShotOne]

Well, excluding folk just because we disagree with them isn't really how we do things here, royalist.

In this conflict hundreds of thousands of non-combatants, women, children and old folk have been slaughtered in their homes, schools, and hospitals. If we're exempting categories of people from attack,surely combatants who have seconds earlier been pouring fire and destruction come some way down the list? I very much doubt the rebel/terrorist group has signed -or even heard of - the Geneva convention. Perhaps we should have considered that before handing them what looked like a TOW missile system.

[Pontius Navigator]

Shot, your right except most State forces comply with conventions and treaties.

In war people get killed. Death tends to be fatal and can be very painful too. Scientists, engineers and soldiers have developed ingenious and more lethal methods of delivering death.

Over time humanity has written rules to make death surer and swifter and horribly disabling systems banned.

Obvious weapons are gas and biological. More recent is land mines. Killing disabled combatants is another. Less memorable is banning dumdum rounds, introducing the full metal jacket reduced bullet fragmentation, introducing small calibre high velocity rounds overcomes that ban.

The problem today is the clash between State and non-State forces.

[MACH2NUMBER]

Civis

I do not want civi opinions excluded, just a little more open-mindedness and understanding when straying out of their own territory.

[RAFEngO74to09]

S-400 SAM System Being Deployed To Latakia AB

Russia has announced that it is going to deploy the S-400 SAM system to Latakia Air Base in Syria.

S-400 / NATO Reporting Name SA-21 Growler

S-400 Triumph Air Defence Missile System - Army Technology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_(missile)

Fencer at Latakia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0pTcM4DBm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzl7sgTgdjk

Latakia DOB Living Conditions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weMCSht4pok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5uB3FI_w_M

[taxydual]

RAFEngO

Thanks for that. (your #180)

A 17 second transmission (blind) that could change the World.

Very, very sad.

[al_renko]

S-400 SAM System Being Deployed To Latakia AB

Fantastic tactical move by the Turks shooting down the "Fencer" or maybe not,there is so much "back stabbing" double dealing going on by all parties involved and not involved as to make anything possible.

[Background Noise]

I don't think we can rely on any of the info that we hear or see in the media.

Even if a transmission was made, we can't be sure the other bloke heard it. Not hearing it doesn't mean it wasn't made. We don't really know when or how the deceased pilot died or whether the other one survived. Can we say for certain that the chap seen from the back on the news was actually the other pilot - or even a pilot at all?

[tubby linton]

I believe that the deceased aviator was a Lt. Col, was he the squadron boss? What nav system does the Sukhoi have?Would some ins drift explain their overflight?

[ORAC]

Could be nav kit - I understand they use off the shelf GPS, but I recall when GW1 occurred and when the bombs started dropping in the wrong place it was because the maps provided by the Saudis were all in the local geodetic datum and the GR1 kit was hard wired for Europe - and where are the joins on their UTM/MGRS maps? We learnt a lot from that about OOA ops, one wonders if the Russians have the same sort of problems. Assuming they were even provided with charts - I imagine the Syrians don't have a fully operating ordnance service available these days.

The surviving Russian crew member also states they, "knew the area like the back of their hands", after a couple of weeks? I would suggest they didn't even know the Turkish territory salient existed - and he didn't at the time when giving his press statement.

[West Coast]

Anyone expect the surviving crewmember to say anything different than what he said wrt border incursion?

[GlobalNav]

"Anyone expect the surviving crewmember to say anything different than what he said wrt border incursion?"

He couldn't possibly have been influenced by Vladimir.

[tubby linton]

My russian is not up to translating this but the Fencers have an upgraded nv kit.
??????????, ??????? ???????, ??????-??????????? ???????, ??????????? ?????????, ??????? ???????? ???, ??????? ???, ??????? ???????, ??????, ???????, ???, ?????, ????????, ??????, ??????-???????????, ???????, ????????? ???????, ??????? ???????, ??????

[tartare]

I wouldn't believe what the Russian navigator says for a second. He'll be saying exactly what he's told to say.
I reckon they knew exactly where they were - were probably complacent thinking the Turks wouldn't dare shoot - and next thing they knew, they had an AIM-9 up their jacksie.

[AreOut]

Even if a transmission was made, we can't be sure the other bloke heard it. Not hearing it doesn't mean it wasn't made. We don't really know when or how the deceased pilot died or whether the other one survived. Can we say for certain that the chap seen from the back on the news was actually the other pilot - or even a pilot at all?

yupp, if I got that right turkish pilots used 121.5 MHz, frequency which Russians use only in emergency situations, so they are likely both right in that respect...if they thought there would be any chance of missiles fired upon them they would certainly listen to that frequency, actually they wouldn't go there at all without fighter escort

[Lima Juliet]

If this is true from 2012 then you have to wonder if this wasn't a long winded retaliation:

Russia told Assad to shoot down Turkish plane, murder captured pilots, 'leaked Syrian documents' show | The Times of Israel

[NutLoose]

Civis
I do not want civi opinions excluded, just a little more open-mindedness and understanding when straying out of their own territory.

I totally agree, you need people posting with opposite views, it makes the debate more interesting and allows you to put across a counter view that will hopefully enlighten them as to the way things operate. After all without that knowledge you cannot come to a reasoned understanding.

[Phil_R]

With that in mind, I propose that in any future conflict where an armed, angry enemy combatant parachutes into my back yard, Courtney should be the first out of the door to see if he's in surrendering mood.

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by Leon Jabachjabicz

If this is true from 2012 then you have to wonder if this wasn't a long winded retaliation:

Russia told Assad to shoot down Turkish plane, murder captured pilots, 'leaked Syrian documents' show | The Times of Israel

Leon, that smells of fish.
Fish left sitting on the docks for a few days.

[Courtney Mil]

Phil R, if I hear of any such event on TOWIE I'll be right round to check.

Are Out, hopefully 243MHz.