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Why don't Syria just ask Russia to close all Syrian airspace. SA-21 is an awesome bit of kit and may be a prelude to the above happening, not much the US&A can do about Assad asking the Russians to do it. No way have the US&A the balls to attack SA-21/SU-34. Goes without saying the same applies to UK, who just tag along submissively on a bitch collar with their master.
You are just being childish.
Why would the US have to attack the Russians?
The Russians are hardly about to attack the US because Assad asks nicely.
The Russians are not at their cold war height. They are a UK level military now.
They are in no way a relevant competitor to the US military might.
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You are just being childish.
Why would the US have to attack the Russians?
The Russians are hardly about to attack the US because Assad asks nicely.
The Russians are not at their cold war height. They are a UK level military now.
They are in no way a relevant competitor to the US military might.
Why would the US have to attack the Russians?
The Russians are hardly about to attack the US because Assad asks nicely.
The Russians are not at their cold war height. They are a UK level military now.
They are in no way a relevant competitor to the US military might.
If Russia were to agree, the US&A (with submissive allies) would be foolish to fly in a SA-21/ SU-34 defended environment. The US&A would not risk a conflict with Russia over Syria, it's not worth it. Putin knows that, Assad knows it and Obama too. Russia would get to keep their Syrian ports and regional influence.
I'm sure someone of your limited intellect can follow that possible scenario.
Apologies for any grammatical errors, currently on my phone. 😉
I think there is some kind of back channel deal, but I could be very wrong.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
That is called deterrence. Will the Turks believe the NATO shield to be impregnable, or would NATO accept tat for tit?
I find the posters who still see Syria as a functioning state, and class it as such, hilarious.
They clearly have a very poor understanding of what is happening on the ground.
They clearly have a very poor understanding of what is happening on the ground.
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Congratulations to all recent contributors, of whatever shade and intellect, because in the last page or so you have managed to neatly encapsulate the miasma that is Syria and Iraq .. and Turkey ... right now.
So many factions/Governments, of various loyalties/issues/religions, all playing in the same sand-pit for their varied objectives.
Yes, I accept that IS [let's skip the variations, whimsical or not, for simplicity] is 'probably' the prime target for most ... or is it also an excuse? Turkey v Kurds, Rebels v Assad, Sunni v Shia?
And WHO is buying the oil that funds IS? There are plenty of disparate players in that game, including I suspect the bloody Kingdom of Saud.
The person who intellectually can unravel this farrago deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. And neither of the winners will be Sykes-Picot.
So many factions/Governments, of various loyalties/issues/religions, all playing in the same sand-pit for their varied objectives.
Yes, I accept that IS [let's skip the variations, whimsical or not, for simplicity] is 'probably' the prime target for most ... or is it also an excuse? Turkey v Kurds, Rebels v Assad, Sunni v Shia?
And WHO is buying the oil that funds IS? There are plenty of disparate players in that game, including I suspect the bloody Kingdom of Saud.
The person who intellectually can unravel this farrago deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. And neither of the winners will be Sykes-Picot.
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More detailed information from the Russian perspective.
Most interesting bit for me was ...
https://www.rt.com/news/323651-turke...downing-syria/
Most interesting bit for me was ...
To attack the Russian bomber with a close-range air-to-air missile, the Turkish fighter jet had to enter Syrian airspace, where it remained for about 40 seconds. Having launched its missile from a distance of 5-7 kilometers, the F-16 immediately turned towards the Turkish border, simultaneously dropping its altitude sharply, thus disappearing from the range of Russian radars at the Khmeimim airbase....
The crew of the second Su-24M had a clear view of the moment the missile was fired from the Turkish F-16, and reported this to base.
The crew of the second Su-24M had a clear view of the moment the missile was fired from the Turkish F-16, and reported this to base.
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Or, stripping out the posturing from both sides ... the Russians were pushing the boundaries and the Turks over-reacted?
And who believes anything either side would say anyway?
And who believes anything either side would say anyway?
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...or the middle east peace ambassador (but I wouldn't bet on him)
Went out on a high note, though
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?
You mean this kunt?
Well there's a thing indeed....
URL below.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c006f...rmat&sharp=10&
ditto to above...
Ref
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...e-of-Isil.html
http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/590...er-syrian-wmds
Well there's a thing indeed....
URL below.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/c006f...rmat&sharp=10&
ditto to above...Ref
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...e-of-Isil.html
http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/590...er-syrian-wmds
Last edited by glad rag; 27th Nov 2015 at 20:08. Reason: well tb really does seem to be unaccountable indeed...
Are the air ops against IS being done with explicit Syrian permission (all nations not Russia) or because Assad can't stop anyone flying over his airspace? I think there is some kind of back channel deal, but I could be very wrong.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
This should be fun. Russia plans to blockage the Syrian-Turkish border, through which of course the Turks supply their allies, Assad's foes.
Not sure how they intend to do it, as I can't see it being effective with the small number of aircraft they have in the region, and ground troops would be just about impossible to supply, especially if the Turks retaliated by closing the Bosphorus.
I note the substantial dig they make at the US et al, as well as justifying it riding on Hollande's coat tails....
Russia ready to coordinate steps to block Turkish-Syrian border — FM
MOSCOW, November 27. /TASS/. Russia is ready to coordinate practical steps to block the Turkish-Syrian border in cooperation with Damascus, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Friday after talks with Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem.
Lavrov recalled that French President Francois Hollande earlier voiced the proposal to adopt specific measures to block the Turkish-Syrian border.
"We actively support that. We are open for coordination of practical steps, certainly, in interaction with the Syrian government," he said. "We are convinced that by blocking the border we will in many respects solve the tasks to eradicate terrorism on Syrian soil. We hope that initiative by President Hollande will be implemented within the framework of our joint work, including in the Group of Support for Syria," the minister said.
Russia has questions about Ankara’s commitment to anti-terror efforts
Lavrov pointed out that Russia has question about Ankara’s real plans, including those on counter-terrorist efforts.
"The hotbed of terrorist treat is concentrated in vast territories of Syria and Iraq," he said. "It is the so-called Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, and we have a common opinion that it can be exterminated only without any double standards. Special responsibility in terms of denouncing such double standards and acting in a united front against terrorism rests on Syria’s neighbor countries."
"We think it highly cynical when some of the countries speak about their commitment to the corresponding United Nations Security Council resolutions and declare themselves members of anti-terrorist coalitions but in reality are playing a game where terrorists are allocated the role of secret allies," Lavrov stressed. "We have more and more questions about Ankara’s real plans and the degree of its readiness to exterminate terrorism, in particular in Syria, and its commitment to the normalization of the situation in Syria."
The Russian top diplomat drew attention to the statement by Russian President Vladimir Putin, who stressed that terrorist threat could be countered through the efforts of the entire world community, with due respect to the norms of international law and the United Nations Security Council’s central role.
"We are ready to take due account of these or those concerns and interests of the countries committed to anti-terrorist efforts and are ready for such formats of coalition, cooperation and coordination that would cause no discomfort to anyone," he said. "Now it is up to our partners, including those who are members of the coalition formed last year by the United States, which has yielded no visible results as of yet."
Not sure how they intend to do it, as I can't see it being effective with the small number of aircraft they have in the region, and ground troops would be just about impossible to supply, especially if the Turks retaliated by closing the Bosphorus.
I note the substantial dig they make at the US et al, as well as justifying it riding on Hollande's coat tails....
Russia ready to coordinate steps to block Turkish-Syrian border — FM
MOSCOW, November 27. /TASS/. Russia is ready to coordinate practical steps to block the Turkish-Syrian border in cooperation with Damascus, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Friday after talks with Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem.
Lavrov recalled that French President Francois Hollande earlier voiced the proposal to adopt specific measures to block the Turkish-Syrian border.
"We actively support that. We are open for coordination of practical steps, certainly, in interaction with the Syrian government," he said. "We are convinced that by blocking the border we will in many respects solve the tasks to eradicate terrorism on Syrian soil. We hope that initiative by President Hollande will be implemented within the framework of our joint work, including in the Group of Support for Syria," the minister said.
Russia has questions about Ankara’s commitment to anti-terror efforts
Lavrov pointed out that Russia has question about Ankara’s real plans, including those on counter-terrorist efforts.
"The hotbed of terrorist treat is concentrated in vast territories of Syria and Iraq," he said. "It is the so-called Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, and we have a common opinion that it can be exterminated only without any double standards. Special responsibility in terms of denouncing such double standards and acting in a united front against terrorism rests on Syria’s neighbor countries."
"We think it highly cynical when some of the countries speak about their commitment to the corresponding United Nations Security Council resolutions and declare themselves members of anti-terrorist coalitions but in reality are playing a game where terrorists are allocated the role of secret allies," Lavrov stressed. "We have more and more questions about Ankara’s real plans and the degree of its readiness to exterminate terrorism, in particular in Syria, and its commitment to the normalization of the situation in Syria."
The Russian top diplomat drew attention to the statement by Russian President Vladimir Putin, who stressed that terrorist threat could be countered through the efforts of the entire world community, with due respect to the norms of international law and the United Nations Security Council’s central role.
"We are ready to take due account of these or those concerns and interests of the countries committed to anti-terrorist efforts and are ready for such formats of coalition, cooperation and coordination that would cause no discomfort to anyone," he said. "Now it is up to our partners, including those who are members of the coalition formed last year by the United States, which has yielded no visible results as of yet."
"Not sure how they intend to do it, as I can't see it being effective with the small number of aircraft they have in the region"
they don't have to close it hermetically, destroying a convoy or two here and there will make turkish truck drivers think twice before crossing the border
they don't have to close it hermetically, destroying a convoy or two here and there will make turkish truck drivers think twice before crossing the border
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ORAC,
"Lavrov pointed out that Russia has question about Ankara's real plans..."
Well, of course - and nobody has question (sic) about RUSSIA's real agenda, do they?
This guy (Lavrov), by comparison, makes both George Dubya's AND Comical Ali's past pronouncements appear most believable.
"Lavrov pointed out that Russia has question about Ankara's real plans..."
Well, of course - and nobody has question (sic) about RUSSIA's real agenda, do they?
This guy (Lavrov), by comparison, makes both George Dubya's AND Comical Ali's past pronouncements appear most believable.
And now it seems Russian embargoes on importation of Turkish goods and services, severe cut backs on travel for Russian citizens to Turkey etc etc. I do hope Erdogan feels he is reward for the shoot down is worth the effect on his economy.
Smudge
Smudge