APO - what is the substantive rank?
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many NCO aircrew veterans of the bomber offensive reverted to Aircraftsman to be ordered around by the likes of Corporal storekeepers.
The Flt Sgt (admin) who delegated them to carry out menial tasks around the Station told them that they weren't 'proper NCO's' in his view!
Shameful!
Exascot, that's substitution pay. You wear your own rank but get paid as if you were your boss' rank.
MOSTAFA - My experience is quite different. Substantive Flt Lt, 2 years as acting Sqn Ldr on various operations, return to being Flt Lt back in UK, get promoted and started on Sqn Ldr pay band 3. Time spend as a/Sqn Ldr counted for the incremental pay.
MOSTAFA - My experience is quite different. Substantive Flt Lt, 2 years as acting Sqn Ldr on various operations, return to being Flt Lt back in UK, get promoted and started on Sqn Ldr pay band 3. Time spend as a/Sqn Ldr counted for the incremental pay.
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Perhaps probationary would be a better description of APO status.
My mate "Stan" had a similar problem to Todger in the tread RAF Pilot Tour lengths, etc in that his fiancée decided she didn't want to be an aircrew's wife. Now Stan had joined on the 8 / 12 scheme and was no longer acting. So Stan quits flying training....but he is signed up for 12 years.....off to the Isle of Man with you young boy shuffling papers. Very inconvenient when fiancée lives in South London, so he wants to resign. Right young man you may resign but you have not completed your National Service commitment so you will make up that time as a/c2 where ever we send you. Immediate change of heart....Please can I go back to Nav school? That's what happened but he won in the end, he got out after a little over 2 years but I think it cost him a bit.
So perhaps the substantive rank is a/c 2 even if you are no longer acting.
My mate "Stan" had a similar problem to Todger in the tread RAF Pilot Tour lengths, etc in that his fiancée decided she didn't want to be an aircrew's wife. Now Stan had joined on the 8 / 12 scheme and was no longer acting. So Stan quits flying training....but he is signed up for 12 years.....off to the Isle of Man with you young boy shuffling papers. Very inconvenient when fiancée lives in South London, so he wants to resign. Right young man you may resign but you have not completed your National Service commitment so you will make up that time as a/c2 where ever we send you. Immediate change of heart....Please can I go back to Nav school? That's what happened but he won in the end, he got out after a little over 2 years but I think it cost him a bit.
So perhaps the substantive rank is a/c 2 even if you are no longer acting.
I once had to "fill in" for my boss while he was away for several months. There was no talk of acting rank, but the subject of "substitution pay" was raised.
My initial reaction was, "I'm not taking a pay cut..!" At the time my boss was a Sqn Ldr Engineer, while I was PA aircrew. However, there is apparently a rule to cover this sort of situation, covering for someone of higher rank but lower pay, and I eventually got a (very) modest pay increase for the extra work and responsibility while was boss was away.
My initial reaction was, "I'm not taking a pay cut..!" At the time my boss was a Sqn Ldr Engineer, while I was PA aircrew. However, there is apparently a rule to cover this sort of situation, covering for someone of higher rank but lower pay, and I eventually got a (very) modest pay increase for the extra work and responsibility while was boss was away.
Senior Naval Officer Leeming had SNOL below his hat peg in the mess. The NUAS tradition was to amend it to reflect the fact that the aircraft did most of their flying from Topcliffe.
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In the 90s was known in the Army as POHR or pay of higher rank. At some stage in th 00s became known as substitution pay. The useful thing was that under afps 05 it was pensionable and counted towards "the highest amount earned over 12 months during your last 3 years of service" when calculating your pension.
Pontius navigator - I stand corrected. I remember the "green shield" squadron leaders on the shiny fleet who got their rank by virtue of sitting in the LHS of a VC10. Most of them kept it, I think, but I'm sure there were one or two highly p***ed off guys who had to revert to Flt Lt on posting to less glamorous aircraft!
In the 1980's the Canadian Navy started allowing women to serve at sea. Most were pretty good people but there was one quite highly obnoxious women LCdr supply officer.
She was frequently referred to as the "Senior Officer Females Afloat"
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
There is the story, probably apocryphal, about the Chief Officer WRAF, who complained to her senior that the acronym was offensive. The following day: "Henceforth the title Chief Officer WRAF is to be amended to Senior Officer WRAF".
Wander -
He started off as a Chaplain (minimum rank Squadron Leader) about 1940 but remustered as an A P/O for pilot training (in Rhodesia) where he remained instructing (creamed off ?) for the duration. Back with his family in 1945 and demobbed as Flying Officer in 1946.
Don't even consider asking why he might have thought that G*bothering might have less effect than H**bombing in time of need. He returned to his previously chosen vocation after the war. I was late on the scene and there is not much in the way of family record.
We're in the process of getting his service record to examine the details. ........ LFH
Lord Flasheart - can you expand on that - seems very odd
Don't even consider asking why he might have thought that G*bothering might have less effect than H**bombing in time of need. He returned to his previously chosen vocation after the war. I was late on the scene and there is not much in the way of family record.
We're in the process of getting his service record to examine the details. ........ LFH
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TTN, indeed, one such I first met as an OpsO at ASI and later as 'the pilot' in the Nav School. He kept applying for a posting back to the shiney fleet but all they would offer was Andovers which he declined as Mrs ANS Pilot had a well paid job in in Retford.
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My step-father was an acting Flt Lt bomb aimer during WW2; on his return to the UK, as he chose to stay in, he was demoted to his sub rank of FSgt, sent on leave, then promoted to WO one month later when he got back to his Squadron.
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Pontius.
You should have shared an office with the pilot,
I did for 9 months. Not a happy bear.
Heads down, look out for the flak.
You should have shared an office with the pilot,
I did for 9 months. Not a happy bear. Heads down, look out for the flak.
Last edited by Cabe LeCutter; 2nd Jul 2015 at 06:54. Reason: Spilling
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TTN There were many Flt Lts at BZN in my time with a big gap between the two stripes. I seem to remember that a posting to the OCU was not popular as you lost the little thin one in the middle. A certain Flt Lt PA (now AVM) had a Gp Capt in the jump seat when there was a flt deck visit. He was asked if he was going to take over for the landing. 'Good Lord', he said, 'no, I am a doctor'.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
CL, I know. All he wanted to do was fly a plane. He was astonished when two US navs said we weren't bothered. What we wanted to do was fly to different places than where we had taken off from.
Gentleman Aviator
Mate of mine got acting rank (of sqn ldr) for a (3 year I think) exchange tour in the Middle East.
Went down to Flt Lt on his return, and took great delight in asking in the General Office (in a loud voice) "How do I claim a demotion allowance for re-ranking?"
Think he got it too!
Went down to Flt Lt on his return, and took great delight in asking in the General Office (in a loud voice) "How do I claim a demotion allowance for re-ranking?"
Think he got it too!