BBMF Lanc Engine Fire
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BBMF update
Lancaster update
Good evening here is a a brief post about the progress on the repairs after the problem with the number four engine. As you can appreciate I cannot give you all the details but it is not simply an engine change. There is fire damage to the nacelle panels, engine bearer and associated systems. All this will take time to assess, repair or replace. We hope to have her flying again this year but at this moment we can not say when. Paul B
Good evening here is a a brief post about the progress on the repairs after the problem with the number four engine. As you can appreciate I cannot give you all the details but it is not simply an engine change. There is fire damage to the nacelle panels, engine bearer and associated systems. All this will take time to assess, repair or replace. We hope to have her flying again this year but at this moment we can not say when. Paul B
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Not a dig, just curious - why can't the poster give the details?
Is it likely to compromise OPSEC? A solitary 1940s patchwork Lancaster is hardly likely to be classified.
Or is he already sticking his neck out because he is not authorized to release anything?
I think the PR machine could get a bit of a leg up with the public if they handled this in the right way. Something like:
"Damage assessed so far is X, Y and Z. While we can fix X and Y from existing spares, Z will require some new widgets to be manufactured, and we have contracted A N Other of Nojobsville to manufacture these for us. The cost of this contract is cost neutral, given that we will not be operating the Lancaster for X months. We expect to receive the widgets in late Augovember, with flight tests the following month, and return to service thereafter."
Is it likely to compromise OPSEC? A solitary 1940s patchwork Lancaster is hardly likely to be classified.
Or is he already sticking his neck out because he is not authorized to release anything?
I think the PR machine could get a bit of a leg up with the public if they handled this in the right way. Something like:
"Damage assessed so far is X, Y and Z. While we can fix X and Y from existing spares, Z will require some new widgets to be manufactured, and we have contracted A N Other of Nojobsville to manufacture these for us. The cost of this contract is cost neutral, given that we will not be operating the Lancaster for X months. We expect to receive the widgets in late Augovember, with flight tests the following month, and return to service thereafter."
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Roadsters, the answer to Z is money and contract.
As for cost neutral, in the big scheme, maybe but as budgets are split up it would take time to borrow from Peter . . .
As for cost neutral, in the big scheme, maybe but as budgets are split up it would take time to borrow from Peter . . .
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Hopefully, as the Vulcan is grounded after this season, it would be nice if the supporters that have spent millions of there hard earned money on 558 will transfer their support to another worthy Avro renovation - Just Jane !
Perhaps we would be seeing 2 Lancasters flying together again, for longer than only 8 years.
Perhaps we would be seeing 2 Lancasters flying together again, for longer than only 8 years.
What is the potential fatigue life for PA474 and Just Jane? Presumably older simpler technology and plenty of spare Merlins in the world means many more decades of flying - assuming there is funding?
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I remember reading that during the re spar work many years ago the wiring was modified to have various connectors and joints to make disassembly in the future more easy. Might make that work more localised at least
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Roadster it could be that A N Other have not yet agreed to manufacture the widgets let alone by Augovember or even Septanuary and they are just giving us as much info as they can to keep us informed
Last edited by mikip; 16th May 2015 at 16:49. Reason: spelling
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@Smuj,
Found the pics of the fin jigs, the two black framed items below.
With luck, they might find the wiring loom templates among these, assuming they were not scrapped.
Found the pics of the fin jigs, the two black framed items below.
With luck, they might find the wiring loom templates among these, assuming they were not scrapped.
Capt. Pugwash,
Great photographs, and good to know that items created during previous restorations haven't been discarded. I know that after our 6 month mainplane restoration, there was a follow up which did a similar job on the rear fuselage and tailplane. As someone whose father in law served, as groundcrew on 617 Squadron, I was delighted to give him a wander around PA474 one weekend during our overhaul. Our "Lanc" means a lot to many people, and it's return to flight is a matter of importance. Lets hope that the extended damage reported by Nutty can be quickly overcome, and the aircraft returned to display flying,my Seotember hopefully.
Smudge
Great photographs, and good to know that items created during previous restorations haven't been discarded. I know that after our 6 month mainplane restoration, there was a follow up which did a similar job on the rear fuselage and tailplane. As someone whose father in law served, as groundcrew on 617 Squadron, I was delighted to give him a wander around PA474 one weekend during our overhaul. Our "Lanc" means a lot to many people, and it's return to flight is a matter of importance. Lets hope that the extended damage reported by Nutty can be quickly overcome, and the aircraft returned to display flying,my Seotember hopefully.
Smudge
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Smudge, did they fit the Lincoln rudders on it when it was with you?
Gsxr600 wrote:
When XH558 is finally grounded, I certainly won't be contributing any financial support for a single aeroplane museum in Doncaster, of all places.
I was thinking of contributing to the fund to keep Sea Vixen FAW2 XP924 flying. But after the uninspiring way FNHT supporters were treated by the Sea Vixen group last weekend, I'm not so sure. Of course we had a very enthusiastic presentation by the RNHF, who'd laid on an excellent day. But the 'Vixen briefing wasn't very good - the speaker mumbled into his microphone and didn't come across as someone who would inspire others to keep the 'Vixen aloft. He even said that he didn't know what his role was! When we were taken to the hangar to see the aircraft, it was roped off and no-one bothered to look after the visitors. At least there was an F-4 in the same hangar, but the RNHF's Sea Hawk was parked in the far corner of the hangar and no-one even mentioned it.....
If people expect public donations, they need to inspire and to be enthusiastic. Neither of which attributes were exhibited by the 'Vixen briefer. What a pity - and a great disappointment to all those who'd driven to Yeovilton especially to see the 'Vixen....
As a Vulcan supporter I'm personally only interested in jets.
I was thinking of contributing to the fund to keep Sea Vixen FAW2 XP924 flying. But after the uninspiring way FNHT supporters were treated by the Sea Vixen group last weekend, I'm not so sure. Of course we had a very enthusiastic presentation by the RNHF, who'd laid on an excellent day. But the 'Vixen briefing wasn't very good - the speaker mumbled into his microphone and didn't come across as someone who would inspire others to keep the 'Vixen aloft. He even said that he didn't know what his role was! When we were taken to the hangar to see the aircraft, it was roped off and no-one bothered to look after the visitors. At least there was an F-4 in the same hangar, but the RNHF's Sea Hawk was parked in the far corner of the hangar and no-one even mentioned it.....
If people expect public donations, they need to inspire and to be enthusiastic. Neither of which attributes were exhibited by the 'Vixen briefer. What a pity - and a great disappointment to all those who'd driven to Yeovilton especially to see the 'Vixen....
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I fully agree that Dr Pleming and his crew could make admirable advisors to many projects, after all the have great experience of the pitfalls and potholes that they have suffered over the last 10 years or so. Has anyone worked out what these last eight years of flying has cost per hour. Jet aircraft tend to come under a 'complicated' (?? I think its called) heading by the CAA which makes them far more expensive to operate and highly regulated.
I have also been a supporter of the Vulcan over the years (pity it wasn't a Victor), but I would now prefer my money to assist in returning another icon to the sky and to be added to the available aircraft for shows around the country. Are there any other complete airframes that could potentially returned to flying condition other than 'Just Jane'?
To my mind 558 will now become a museum piece, along with many others, but with its own posh shed. Perhaps they should sell it in America and maybe they could keep it flying out there.
I have also been a supporter of the Vulcan over the years (pity it wasn't a Victor), but I would now prefer my money to assist in returning another icon to the sky and to be added to the available aircraft for shows around the country. Are there any other complete airframes that could potentially returned to flying condition other than 'Just Jane'?
To my mind 558 will now become a museum piece, along with many others, but with its own posh shed. Perhaps they should sell it in America and maybe they could keep it flying out there.
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Smudge, did they fit the Lincoln rudders on it when it was with you?
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I'm going to be putting my money behind XL426 post 558, it's my local Vulcan and should be able to make that glorious noise for many decades to come for a modest amount of funding. As previously said jets are my thing but I don't think getting anything post 1960 flying is going to be cost effective or even possible. Tornado to the Sky anyone, I can't see it happening.
So put your money behind Just Jane or a Shackleton if you want to see something interesting in the sky. Or like me support a taxi able Vulcan or Victor. Your money will go a long way and you'll get up close and personal far more than at an airshow.
So put your money behind Just Jane or a Shackleton if you want to see something interesting in the sky. Or like me support a taxi able Vulcan or Victor. Your money will go a long way and you'll get up close and personal far more than at an airshow.
Nutty,
Sorry for the delay in responding. The repairs that we carried out at Abingdnon when I was the gang boss entailed work on the mainplanes only. I became aware of the fact that 474 had the Lincoln undercarriage as we had to remove it to carry out the planned work. Not sure if I made it clear before but that repair basically replaced everything of the mainplanes, less the Main and rear spars, which were suitably blended and cleared for many more years of flight. I also recall that there was discussion, when we had the mighty beast down to bare spars, whether to replace the outer spars with some "in store" Shackleton spars, which would have significantly increased the aircrafts in service fatigue life. This was not done on "my" repair. It might be of interest that as we stripped the original material from the wings we found two, very interesting items. A pristine 2BA/4BA spanner left on the rear spar and a Threepenny bit, also in good nick inside the Right wingtip. I'm not sure where they disappeared to, but they would have been left in the original wings as the areas that we found them in were full closure sections. I believe that the refurbishment of the aft fuselage and tailplane was done after my time, and may well have been done at somewhere like Marshalls of Cambridge, I'm not sure. And I was not aware that the rudders were Lincoln as well as the Undercarriage. I wonder if it really matters ? I have an ex C130 GE mate who has two steel hips, and various other plastic bits, he is still my mate (if you see what I mean).
Smudge
Sorry for the delay in responding. The repairs that we carried out at Abingdnon when I was the gang boss entailed work on the mainplanes only. I became aware of the fact that 474 had the Lincoln undercarriage as we had to remove it to carry out the planned work. Not sure if I made it clear before but that repair basically replaced everything of the mainplanes, less the Main and rear spars, which were suitably blended and cleared for many more years of flight. I also recall that there was discussion, when we had the mighty beast down to bare spars, whether to replace the outer spars with some "in store" Shackleton spars, which would have significantly increased the aircrafts in service fatigue life. This was not done on "my" repair. It might be of interest that as we stripped the original material from the wings we found two, very interesting items. A pristine 2BA/4BA spanner left on the rear spar and a Threepenny bit, also in good nick inside the Right wingtip. I'm not sure where they disappeared to, but they would have been left in the original wings as the areas that we found them in were full closure sections. I believe that the refurbishment of the aft fuselage and tailplane was done after my time, and may well have been done at somewhere like Marshalls of Cambridge, I'm not sure. And I was not aware that the rudders were Lincoln as well as the Undercarriage. I wonder if it really matters ? I have an ex C130 GE mate who has two steel hips, and various other plastic bits, he is still my mate (if you see what I mean).
Smudge
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The Lincoln style undercarriage and rudder were on her from day one; look at any photos of her during the period she spent on mapping duties. The same undercarriage and rudders were also fitted on Lancaster B.VII - such as NX611 - and Lancastrians.
Potential fatigue life could be infinite; the structure is relatively simple so you can effectively zero the clock. The Shackleton fleet had a fatigue remediation programme and some aircraft were redone twice - as mentioned earlier it was the spare booms from this that allowed PA474 to be re-boomed in the mid 1990's.
Even so with about 4000 hours flown before the rebuild and now being on a second set of spar booms she's still a way behind the highest houred Lanc, which is Canada's FM212. That aircraft has done around 8069 hours on its original wing!
Potential fatigue life could be infinite; the structure is relatively simple so you can effectively zero the clock. The Shackleton fleet had a fatigue remediation programme and some aircraft were redone twice - as mentioned earlier it was the spare booms from this that allowed PA474 to be re-boomed in the mid 1990's.
Even so with about 4000 hours flown before the rebuild and now being on a second set of spar booms she's still a way behind the highest houred Lanc, which is Canada's FM212. That aircraft has done around 8069 hours on its original wing!
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For those that are wondering what we are talking about rudder wise, this picture shows the two styles, I suppose the Lincoln style ones are more responsive being larger and having the "squared" off lower trailing edge.
