Year of the Rafale
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Ooops. Bit more haggling needed over the warranty terms for the main order required then? Government needs to poke Dassault with a sharp stick? 
India, France Yet To Sign Deal on Rafale
NEW DELHI — India and France did not sign any type of agreement for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force during the Wednesday visit of French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian here. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, during a visit to France, announced April 10 an offer to buy 36 Rafale fighters on a government-to- government basis and analysts were expecting an agreement to be signed during Le Drian's visit.
An Indian Defence Ministry statement says, "Joint Statement issued during Prime Minister's visit to France, inter-alia, included acquisition of 36 Rafale jets in fly away condition, through an Inter-Governmental Agreement. To follow-up on the subject, Le Drian, the Defense Minister of France and Manohar Parrikar, the Defense Minister of India, met today at New Delhi to decide on the way forward in this regard." On what happens next, the release says, "The two Defense Ministers discussed modalities in order to reach an early conclusion of an Inter-Governmental Agreement on the subject. The two sides decided to set up teams to work out the details in a time bound manner."
The fate of the 2007 request for proposals (RFP), which had a provision to buy 18 Rafales directly and another 108 made in India, is still not known.No MoD official would comment whether there would be Indian-made Rafales or whether the RFP would be canceled.
"The ambiguity over the India-made Rafale persists but the Indian Air Force will have to decide early how to acquire the additional fighters to shore up the dwindling fighter aircraft strength. We were expecting some clarity on the India-made Rafale," says Bhim Singh, retired Indian Air Force Wing commander.
India, France Yet To Sign Deal on Rafale
NEW DELHI — India and France did not sign any type of agreement for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force during the Wednesday visit of French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian here. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, during a visit to France, announced April 10 an offer to buy 36 Rafale fighters on a government-to- government basis and analysts were expecting an agreement to be signed during Le Drian's visit.
An Indian Defence Ministry statement says, "Joint Statement issued during Prime Minister's visit to France, inter-alia, included acquisition of 36 Rafale jets in fly away condition, through an Inter-Governmental Agreement. To follow-up on the subject, Le Drian, the Defense Minister of France and Manohar Parrikar, the Defense Minister of India, met today at New Delhi to decide on the way forward in this regard." On what happens next, the release says, "The two Defense Ministers discussed modalities in order to reach an early conclusion of an Inter-Governmental Agreement on the subject. The two sides decided to set up teams to work out the details in a time bound manner."
The fate of the 2007 request for proposals (RFP), which had a provision to buy 18 Rafales directly and another 108 made in India, is still not known.No MoD official would comment whether there would be Indian-made Rafales or whether the RFP would be canceled.
"The ambiguity over the India-made Rafale persists but the Indian Air Force will have to decide early how to acquire the additional fighters to shore up the dwindling fighter aircraft strength. We were expecting some clarity on the India-made Rafale," says Bhim Singh, retired Indian Air Force Wing commander.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fate of the 2007 request for proposals (RFP), which had a provision to buy 18 Rafales directly and another 108 made in India, is still not known.No MoD official would comment whether there would be Indian-made Rafales or whether the RFP would be canceled.
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for reasons of price
The Rafale not did 'win', hence the failure to sign a contract, it won the right to continue negotiations. Both it and the EF were joint winners of the technical competition
Peter_WE, what subsequent calculations?
I am a great supporter of the Typhoon, eventually, and I used to be the desk officer at the Air Warfare Centre for Eurofighter, but I'm not sure how Rafale could be more expensive than Typhoon.
Some links/articles/proof would be useful to support a claim like that.
I am a great supporter of the Typhoon, eventually, and I used to be the desk officer at the Air Warfare Centre for Eurofighter, but I'm not sure how Rafale could be more expensive than Typhoon.
Some links/articles/proof would be useful to support a claim like that.
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peter_WE, what subsequent calculations?
I am a great supporter of the Typhoon, eventually, and I used to be the desk officer at the Air Warfare Centre for Eurofighter, but I'm not sure how Rafale could be more expensive than Typhoon.
Some links/articles/proof would be useful to support a claim like that.
I am a great supporter of the Typhoon, eventually, and I used to be the desk officer at the Air Warfare Centre for Eurofighter, but I'm not sure how Rafale could be more expensive than Typhoon.
Some links/articles/proof would be useful to support a claim like that.
Which would have happened whether they would have built the Rafale or the more expensive Typhoon.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Easy come, easy go.....
Minister: India To Buy Only 36 French Rafale Jets
NEW DELHI — India will only buy 36 Rafale fighter jets as they are "way too expensive", the defense minister said Sunday, dashing lingering French hopes of a larger deal that has been years in the making. Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar said the previous government's plans to buy 126 of the fighter jets from French firm Dassault were "economically unviable and not required."
"We are not buying the rest. We are only buying the ... 36," Parrikar told the Press Trust of India (PTI) news agency.
During a visit to France in April, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced that New Delhi was ordering 36 of the "ready to fly" planes. The deal — estimated to be worth €5 billion ($5.5 billion) — followed tortuous years-long negotiations on buying the jets. But the purchase agreement fell a long way short of previous proposals for India to buy 126. Frustrating negotiations for that deal stalled over costs and assembly guarantees.
Parrikar has since played down expectations of a larger deal, but his comments on Sunday were some of his strongest yet, saying buying more of the jets would blow the defense ministry's procurement budget.
"I also feel like having a BMW and Mercedes. But I don't because I can't afford it. First I can't afford it and second I don't need it," Parrikar told PTI......
Minister: India To Buy Only 36 French Rafale Jets
NEW DELHI — India will only buy 36 Rafale fighter jets as they are "way too expensive", the defense minister said Sunday, dashing lingering French hopes of a larger deal that has been years in the making. Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar said the previous government's plans to buy 126 of the fighter jets from French firm Dassault were "economically unviable and not required."
"We are not buying the rest. We are only buying the ... 36," Parrikar told the Press Trust of India (PTI) news agency.
During a visit to France in April, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced that New Delhi was ordering 36 of the "ready to fly" planes. The deal — estimated to be worth €5 billion ($5.5 billion) — followed tortuous years-long negotiations on buying the jets. But the purchase agreement fell a long way short of previous proposals for India to buy 126. Frustrating negotiations for that deal stalled over costs and assembly guarantees.
Parrikar has since played down expectations of a larger deal, but his comments on Sunday were some of his strongest yet, saying buying more of the jets would blow the defense ministry's procurement budget.
"I also feel like having a BMW and Mercedes. But I don't because I can't afford it. First I can't afford it and second I don't need it," Parrikar told PTI......
"Way too expensive". Begs the question - compared with what?
Are the Indians just frustrated that Dassault/French Government haven't buckled under the 126 aircraft carrot? Probably.
India were originally specifying equipment for their own needs to be incorporated onto Rafale and this work was being carried out by Dassault to provide the capability. I presume all that effort is now surplus to requirements if the deal is now based on an 'off-the-shelf' solution. Interesting to know if this work was being funded by Dassault because I can't believe India were providing any monetary investment to create bespoke capability.
I'm guessing that Dassault think they have got the best deal here - 36 aircraft built to a specification that they already know, all produced in France and they don't have to deal with HAL and any other potential Indian companies in the supply chain.
Mange tout
Are the Indians just frustrated that Dassault/French Government haven't buckled under the 126 aircraft carrot? Probably.
India were originally specifying equipment for their own needs to be incorporated onto Rafale and this work was being carried out by Dassault to provide the capability. I presume all that effort is now surplus to requirements if the deal is now based on an 'off-the-shelf' solution. Interesting to know if this work was being funded by Dassault because I can't believe India were providing any monetary investment to create bespoke capability.
I'm guessing that Dassault think they have got the best deal here - 36 aircraft built to a specification that they already know, all produced in France and they don't have to deal with HAL and any other potential Indian companies in the supply chain.
Mange tout
SpeedyWheels,
Good points. There is also the possibility that this move by India is an attempt to put more pressure on Dassault to offer further concessions. But, given that things move very slowly in Indian red-tape, we won't know about that for a long time.
Good points. There is also the possibility that this move by India is an attempt to put more pressure on Dassault to offer further concessions. But, given that things move very slowly in Indian red-tape, we won't know about that for a long time.
"Way too expensive". Begs the question - compared with what?
Aero India 2015: BAE Systems in talks to weaponise India's Hawks - IHS Jane's 360
They already have an establish production line
They are not comparable but it would appear the IAF are up to .. something. The production line is in India, which fits their Made in India Policy and reliably has been very good compared to the MIG-21 and SU-30
The timing is interesting, maybe its a negotiating tactic
The timing is interesting, maybe its a negotiating tactic
Originally Posted by Peter we
The timing is interesting, maybe its a negotiating tactic
Originally Posted by Courtney
There is also the possibility that this move by India is an attempt to put more pressure on Dassault to offer further concessions.