Veterans planning to leave Scotland in the event of a yes vote?
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You get the impression that the "yes" vote was allowed its day in the sun in the interests of balance by an opinion obsessed media over the weekend. But the inexorable critical mass and gearing of the "no" vote is now going to quietly start gaining traction again. Standard Life puts the velvet boot in (again) this morning. You can guess which way those employees will be voting.
Scottish Independence: Standard Life Calms Customer Fears With Precautionary Measures
Scottish Independence: Standard Life Calms Customer Fears With Precautionary Measures
Don't forget, that the 'Yes' majority reported over the weekend covers only those who say they have firmly made up their minds one way of the other. I'd be surprised if most of those showing up to vote on the day who are currently still undecided opt to vote Yes, as I'd imagine they'd opt for the status quo (especially given the recent offers of extended powers).
Just my opinion, of course.
Just my opinion, of course.
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Well with the Pound dropping, companies and people trying to shift equity out of Scotland, companies such as B&Q warning that prices will rise in Scotland if it becomes an independent state, and the stock markets jittery over the whole thing, it makes you wonder when the rest of the world is concerned over the split Salmond can still make a viable case that the populace appear to be buying into. One thing is for certain, as things stan at the moment we know exactly what is what, if that changes the future is a mixture of conjecture and Salmond fairy dust.
There are a lot of things that would need to be sorted, an example is the BBC, as an independant Country will they simply set up their own service and the BBC stop collecting Licence fees in Scotland and turn off the transmitters?
There are a lot of things that would need to be sorted, an example is the BBC, as an independant Country will they simply set up their own service and the BBC stop collecting Licence fees in Scotland and turn off the transmitters?
NutLoose wrote:
Hmmm.....
There are a lot of things that would need to be sorted, an example is the BBC, as an independent country will they simply set up their own service and the BBC stop collecting Licence fees in Scotland and turn off the transmitters?
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Whatever the rights and wrongs, Salmond is so obsessed, so focused on this one single issue, he'd probably fly his country into a mountain and still be denying the reality with his final breath. His case isn't cogent, the fact that it's built on best case possibilities, uncertainty, speculation and ideal scenarios is one thing, the fact that he's using that modeling to apply to the future wealth of a country is nothing short of baffling. He has become like a used car salesman, like a student being quizzed by DS after a presentation.. batting away objection after objection with a mix of confidence and increasing self denial.
I like the idea of Scotland being 'free', I really do. I don't think that a 300 year old political union is the basis for keeping it if tradition is all we can point to. Scotland needs help in away that shouldn't be delivered from England; it's not fair on England and it isn't in Scottish long term good; basically, we continue to slap paint over cracks. But the Plan B still has to be better than Plan A, otherwise why do it? It has to offer security, certainty and at least a route map for improvement.. I think we really could be better as the equivalent of our parts rather than the total sum of our parts.
But on the strength of the data, the forecasts and the still unanswered questions, you'd have to be absolutely stark raving mad to gamble the entire well being of a country and its people on the basis of what that lunatic is saying. Who in their right mind would subordinate certainty to economic uncertainty, hard nosed financial reality and the well being of your people to single issue fanaticism, political ideology and prescriptive dogma? Whether or not your heart says 'yes', what does your 'head' tell you? If you had £50,000 in savings, would you gamble it in such a foolhardy and uncertain way as many people seem willing to do next week, simply because the proposition is evocatively wrapped up in the Saltire?
Our leaders should have presented a fused and cogent action plan that the people could have voted on in informed certainty. Instead of deciding on the viability of a pre determined and rational road map, the electorate is being asked to vote on nothing more than a gut instinct, forged years before at home, at Uni and in formative years. Now, community has turned against community, debates are reduced to shouting and our legislators have shown themselves up to be what they are, amateurish and incompetent chancers. Me, I'm away for a couple of weeks - anything to get away from the Scottish Neverendum.
I like the idea of Scotland being 'free', I really do. I don't think that a 300 year old political union is the basis for keeping it if tradition is all we can point to. Scotland needs help in away that shouldn't be delivered from England; it's not fair on England and it isn't in Scottish long term good; basically, we continue to slap paint over cracks. But the Plan B still has to be better than Plan A, otherwise why do it? It has to offer security, certainty and at least a route map for improvement.. I think we really could be better as the equivalent of our parts rather than the total sum of our parts.
But on the strength of the data, the forecasts and the still unanswered questions, you'd have to be absolutely stark raving mad to gamble the entire well being of a country and its people on the basis of what that lunatic is saying. Who in their right mind would subordinate certainty to economic uncertainty, hard nosed financial reality and the well being of your people to single issue fanaticism, political ideology and prescriptive dogma? Whether or not your heart says 'yes', what does your 'head' tell you? If you had £50,000 in savings, would you gamble it in such a foolhardy and uncertain way as many people seem willing to do next week, simply because the proposition is evocatively wrapped up in the Saltire?
Our leaders should have presented a fused and cogent action plan that the people could have voted on in informed certainty. Instead of deciding on the viability of a pre determined and rational road map, the electorate is being asked to vote on nothing more than a gut instinct, forged years before at home, at Uni and in formative years. Now, community has turned against community, debates are reduced to shouting and our legislators have shown themselves up to be what they are, amateurish and incompetent chancers. Me, I'm away for a couple of weeks - anything to get away from the Scottish Neverendum.
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Reading your posts I am yet again struck by how out of touch so many of you are with what exactly is going on up here.
I live in Scotland, I work in Scotland and I climb mountains in Scotland...I meet many, many Scots from all walks of life and most/many of them are voting yes, despite the fact they dislike Salmond as much as we (the English do). It is not about Salmond and the SNP FFS!
It is about democracy. Thatcher taught Scotland to loathe the Conservative Party. They (the jocks) want to be governed by people they elect...not by people somebody else elects. Most of them are well aware there are huge risks...but they are risks they are willing to take to take democracy forward. For anybody who has fought for freedom and democracy, that is tough argument to counter with any degree of integrity.
If it was not for the older generation of no voting Scots, this referendum would be a forgone conclusion.
PS
I think they are wrong...but purely because I am not, and never have been, and idealist and a lot of this chimes too much with idealism in my book. But that does not mean I don't respect their point of view.
I live in Scotland, I work in Scotland and I climb mountains in Scotland...I meet many, many Scots from all walks of life and most/many of them are voting yes, despite the fact they dislike Salmond as much as we (the English do). It is not about Salmond and the SNP FFS!
It is about democracy. Thatcher taught Scotland to loathe the Conservative Party. They (the jocks) want to be governed by people they elect...not by people somebody else elects. Most of them are well aware there are huge risks...but they are risks they are willing to take to take democracy forward. For anybody who has fought for freedom and democracy, that is tough argument to counter with any degree of integrity.
If it was not for the older generation of no voting Scots, this referendum would be a forgone conclusion.
PS
I think they are wrong...but purely because I am not, and never have been, and idealist and a lot of this chimes too much with idealism in my book. But that does not mean I don't respect their point of view.
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TOFO
You make a lot of sense there, and many people seem to think that everything will change if they have their own parliament. As you say, many people want rules and life governed by locally elected politicians, and I think they genuinely believe they will get it. They are of course encouraged to believe this by 'yes' supporters or politicians.
If Scotland breaks away I wonder how much of a shock the reality will be.
Will employment law change much.............probably not as it's EU governed and Salmond wants in to that gravy train
The same applies to all kinds of stuff from the shape of bananas to the design of cars sold in Scotland.
Last night I was listening to radio 5 and heard two comments from Scots that made me laugh out loud.
The interviewer was asking random people there views on a future Scotland
Person A said she wanted the NHS in Scotland to be controlled from Scotland as it would be better than it is now and have more money than it does controlled from London.
Person B followed immediately on and said he didn't think it would be any different as NHS SCOTLAND is already locally controlled in Scotland by scots so nothing would change
As for Scottish defence, I'm already at a figure three times higher than Salmond has said the budget will be, and I've only accounted for two aircraft types and a few other bits of kit (unless Salmond can run 36 typhoons and a new buy of MPA aircraft plus training and support for magic beans)
As a question, where will future Scottish typhoon pilots train, and will it be in an English speaking country? The 'yessers' say an independent Scottish airforce say they need 36 typhoons (so need to buy 12 new after being gifted 24)..................are there 36 Scottish pilots trained and combat ready on typhoon now?
You make a lot of sense there, and many people seem to think that everything will change if they have their own parliament. As you say, many people want rules and life governed by locally elected politicians, and I think they genuinely believe they will get it. They are of course encouraged to believe this by 'yes' supporters or politicians.
If Scotland breaks away I wonder how much of a shock the reality will be.
Will employment law change much.............probably not as it's EU governed and Salmond wants in to that gravy train
The same applies to all kinds of stuff from the shape of bananas to the design of cars sold in Scotland.
Last night I was listening to radio 5 and heard two comments from Scots that made me laugh out loud.
The interviewer was asking random people there views on a future Scotland
Person A said she wanted the NHS in Scotland to be controlled from Scotland as it would be better than it is now and have more money than it does controlled from London.
Person B followed immediately on and said he didn't think it would be any different as NHS SCOTLAND is already locally controlled in Scotland by scots so nothing would change
As for Scottish defence, I'm already at a figure three times higher than Salmond has said the budget will be, and I've only accounted for two aircraft types and a few other bits of kit (unless Salmond can run 36 typhoons and a new buy of MPA aircraft plus training and support for magic beans)
As a question, where will future Scottish typhoon pilots train, and will it be in an English speaking country? The 'yessers' say an independent Scottish airforce say they need 36 typhoons (so need to buy 12 new after being gifted 24)..................are there 36 Scottish pilots trained and combat ready on typhoon now?
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TJ,
If you are correct, which I'm not disputing, then surely the 600 odd page document is nothing more than a waste of paper (which cost over £1M of taxpayers money) as nothing in it may come to pass? Indeed, all specific details being pushed by the "yes" campaign are inevitability nothing more than mere speculation. It's basically a case of vote for independence and then we'll work out what sort of country you get afterwards. To take a slightly fanciful example, all this massive amount of talk of keeping the pound on the basis "it's our pound" could be pointless if your cross party team decides to use the US$ on the basis it is a stable global currency and will attract more US tourists!
Presumably this cross party team will have to conclude its deliberations before any discussions with Westminster begin, as until they do the Scottish side won't know what its bargaining position is.
If you are correct, which I'm not disputing, then surely the 600 odd page document is nothing more than a waste of paper (which cost over £1M of taxpayers money) as nothing in it may come to pass? Indeed, all specific details being pushed by the "yes" campaign are inevitability nothing more than mere speculation. It's basically a case of vote for independence and then we'll work out what sort of country you get afterwards. To take a slightly fanciful example, all this massive amount of talk of keeping the pound on the basis "it's our pound" could be pointless if your cross party team decides to use the US$ on the basis it is a stable global currency and will attract more US tourists!
Presumably this cross party team will have to conclude its deliberations before any discussions with Westminster begin, as until they do the Scottish side won't know what its bargaining position is.
Tom
As Lloyds Banking Group own the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) and the UK Govt have a sizeable stake, I don't see it staying in Scottish for very long if the Scots make the biggest tactical blunder since Goering switched from the airfields to London in the Battle of Britain - by voting 'yes'.
Get set for more anouncements like this...business is business, as they say, and there is no room for dewy eyed views of the mother country!
LJ
Get set for more anouncements like this...business is business, as they say, and there is no room for dewy eyed views of the mother country!
LJ
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In truth an Independent Scotland cannot bear the risk presented by the larger banks, particularly the "casino" investment arms. Rules concerning HQ location and core customer base may also precipitate a move. What this does mean is that Scotland would no longer be exposed to the level of risk that we saw in the banking crash, a level it would not be able to defend against. Of course I never understood why the state would allow itself to be exposed to such a risk - the banks should have been regulated effectively to prevent the situation where they are in a position to cause the state to fail.
Tom
Tom
Last edited by TomJoad; 10th Sep 2014 at 19:21.
Tom
What it would mean is that you have naff-all investment in a broken country! You can't just cut each other's hair, sell oat cakes and whisky. The big corporates ain't stupid and have already started pulling the plug - ignore at your peril!
Also, if the 50%+ tax rate that Salmon D is promising comes in then all of your high powered help in and around Aberdeen is going to leg it faster than a rat on a sinking ship.
LJ
What it would mean is that you have naff-all investment in a broken country! You can't just cut each other's hair, sell oat cakes and whisky. The big corporates ain't stupid and have already started pulling the plug - ignore at your peril!
Also, if the 50%+ tax rate that Salmon D is promising comes in then all of your high powered help in and around Aberdeen is going to leg it faster than a rat on a sinking ship.
LJ
Follow the money
Quote from The Week,
"First news of the YouGov poll came from Rupert Murdoch, owner of the Sunday Times, who COMMISIONED it. He tweeted that the result was "a huge black eye for [the] political establishment, especially Cameron and Miliband".
Rupert Murdoch has an axe to grind. after the phone tapping debacle News Corporation and his empire require the correct result, which according to Ladbrokes, follow the money, is not going to happen. (NO result has widened to 1 to 3 in last 24 hours)
Don`t panic chaps, we will be fine.
Will be over the pond when result comes in, but assured are colonial friends will give me news and reason to celebrate with a good malt.
"First news of the YouGov poll came from Rupert Murdoch, owner of the Sunday Times, who COMMISIONED it. He tweeted that the result was "a huge black eye for [the] political establishment, especially Cameron and Miliband".
Rupert Murdoch has an axe to grind. after the phone tapping debacle News Corporation and his empire require the correct result, which according to Ladbrokes, follow the money, is not going to happen. (NO result has widened to 1 to 3 in last 24 hours)
Don`t panic chaps, we will be fine.
Will be over the pond when result comes in, but assured are colonial friends will give me news and reason to celebrate with a good malt.
Avoid imitations
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Hmm, Alex Salmond and his deputy, Nicola Sturgeon. They seem so familiar..
You never see them in the same room, as these two heroes, do you?
You never see them in the same room, as these two heroes, do you?
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Tom
What it would mean is that you have naff-all investment in a broken country! You can't just cut each other's hair, sell oat cakes and whisky. The big corporates ain't stupid and have already started pulling the plug - ignore at your peril!
Also, if the 50%+ tax rate that Salmon D is promising comes in then all of your high powered help in and around Aberdeen is going to leg it faster than a rat on a sinking ship.
LJ
What it would mean is that you have naff-all investment in a broken country! You can't just cut each other's hair, sell oat cakes and whisky. The big corporates ain't stupid and have already started pulling the plug - ignore at your peril!
Also, if the 50%+ tax rate that Salmon D is promising comes in then all of your high powered help in and around Aberdeen is going to leg it faster than a rat on a sinking ship.
LJ
Tom
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Let's imagine...........
So, coming back (near) to the original heading......
Where would they go?
If the vote is Yes, and we get the plague of Frogs, despite having the Oil & Whisky revenue... and Wee Eck gets us into bother.....
The worlds markets are already giving the pound a hard time. Stability will be hard to get anyway, but really hard in the event of a Yes vote.
So, not only is there no pot of gold at our end of the rainbow, it's looking ****e at the English side as well.
So, back to the OP, if it seems that you need to move out of Scotland, where is it that you are going, in order to be better off?
Where would they go?
If the vote is Yes, and we get the plague of Frogs, despite having the Oil & Whisky revenue... and Wee Eck gets us into bother.....
The worlds markets are already giving the pound a hard time. Stability will be hard to get anyway, but really hard in the event of a Yes vote.
So, not only is there no pot of gold at our end of the rainbow, it's looking ****e at the English side as well.
So, back to the OP, if it seems that you need to move out of Scotland, where is it that you are going, in order to be better off?
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So, back to the OP, if it seems that you need to move out of Scotland, where is it that you are going, in order to be better off
what matters is
where you pay tax (tax domicle)
what is says on your passport (nationality)
where you keep your wealth (security)
If it were yes and the reciprocal tax arrangements are "normal" (which they will be)...I can pay tax in the rUK, keep my money in rUK, have my pension paid by rUK and have rUK in my passport. I will be an ex-pat just like many of you living in France. That much is obvious...what should be equally obvious (but seems not to be) is that lord and lady machaggis living in the castle up the road, will have exactly the same options as me.
Right, I'm not posting that again.
But I will say this...a no vote is going cause a sh1tload of grief, so I believe this genie, and the goat it comes with, is out of the bottle and is never going back.
On that basis alone, bonnie Scotland, may not be so bonnie for a geezer with my accent whatever happens.