Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Was the Lightning really THAT good ?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Was the Lightning really THAT good ?

Old 15th Aug 2016, 11:29
  #281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Boulevard of Broken Dreams
Age: 52
Posts: 197
Received 9 Likes on 2 Posts
ExMudmover - thanks for that interesting update - apologies for my delay in the replying, but I have been sunning myself in Cornwall.

Do you know when the picture was taken? Was it early 1983?
NickB is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 10:40
  #282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Budapest
Age: 56
Posts: 94
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I came across a random video on Youtube which is a film of 3 lightnings at Wharton in 1988. It seems to be some kind of ceremony at the end? Was this the retirement?

Apologies if it's been posted before

AndySmith is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 9th Mar 2019, 11:34
  #283 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downeast
Age: 75
Posts: 18,318
Received 593 Likes on 249 Posts
The Phantom began its takeoff roll, and the camera followed - I assumed a helicopter, and that the F-4 would soon accelerate out of the frame.
Had it been a Jaguar....the helicopter would have had to stop for a refuel in all probability!
SASless is online now  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 12:26
  #284 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,222
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
A Puma could go from Zero to 145 knots in 2,000 yards easily. There is a picture of an F4 with two Pumas in formation with it.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 12:33
  #285 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In an ever changing place
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AndySmith
I came across a random video on Youtube which is a film of 3 lightnings at Wharton in 1988. It seems to be some kind of ceremony at the end? Was this the retirement?

Apologies if it's been posted before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp7LQbtezhw
More or less the last flights before being sent off to museums and private owners. Colin Rae was the one opening the bottle of bubbly.
Above The Clouds is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 12:40
  #286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 2,929
Received 141 Likes on 66 Posts
Weren't these three the aircraft that BAE used for the Tor F3 radar development work?
pr00ne is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 13:09
  #287 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lincs
Posts: 2,307
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by AndySmith
I came across a random video on Youtube which is a film of 3 lightnings at Wharton in 1988. It seems to be some kind of ceremony at the end? Was this the retirement?

Apologies if it's been posted before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp7LQbtezhw
Scroll down the comments on that video and you will see a detailed reply from Colin Rae.
TEEEJ is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 14:16
  #288 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Royal Berkshire
Posts: 1,779
Received 88 Likes on 46 Posts
Originally Posted by Above The Clouds
More or less the last flights before being sent off to museums and private owners.
Not at all.
BAe continued to fly '693, '773 and 904 for another 2/3 years until the MOD contract for the Tornado trials ended in 1992 and '693 and '773 were bought by Barry Power and the Lightning Flying Club, and delivered to Exeter in Dec 1992. '904 went to the LPG at Brunty.
'928 was retired early being out of FI, IIRC, and BAe stripped it for parts and mounted it on a pole at BAe, and then '724 was retired, and bought by the Lightning Association and delivered back to Binbrook by Peter Gordon-Johnson IIRC in 1991?

GeeRam is offline  
Old 7th May 2024, 18:44
  #289 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Saudi Arabia
Posts: 10
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My two cents. I had an opportunity to talk with a retired pilot, who had flown the Lightnings in an air force of one of their Mid-Eastern users. He was not fond of these birds actually. He mentioned that they were not pleasant to fly, surprisingly not too maneuverable, and consumed gas extremely quickly. The maintenance was very laborious. That said, the Lightning was too cumbersome and expensive to operate giving not too big advantage in return. Compared to the Lightnings, the Hawker Hunter was much more pleasant and much cheaper to fly, he said.
aircraftfan is offline  
Old 8th May 2024, 09:52
  #290 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Royal Berkshire
Posts: 1,779
Received 88 Likes on 46 Posts
Originally Posted by aircraftfan
My two cents. I had an opportunity to talk with a retired pilot, who had flown the Lightnings in an air force of one of their Mid-Eastern users. He was not fond of these birds actually. He mentioned that they were not pleasant to fly, surprisingly not too maneuverable, and consumed gas extremely quickly.
Are you sure he was an ex-Lightning pilot, as I've yet to meet one that didn't think it was a delight to fly.......
GeeRam is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 8th May 2024, 11:56
  #291 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Saudi Arabia
Posts: 10
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I do not have any reason not to believe him.
aircraftfan is offline  
Old 8th May 2024, 11:56
  #292 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: GMT
Age: 53
Posts: 2,105
Received 205 Likes on 80 Posts
Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
A Puma could go from Zero to 145 knots in 2,000 yards easily. There is a picture of an F4 with two Pumas in formation with it.
2000 yards - without refueling?
minigundiplomat is offline  
Old 8th May 2024, 17:22
  #293 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Amersham
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
So, a fond memory... early 1980's. As a young man I used to go walking in the Cleveland hills in the North East of England. Stopped at the summit of 'Roseberry Topping' a distinctive local landmark being a shark fin shaped hill.
Just tucking into my cheese buttie when I hear the sound of a fast jet approaching. Looking down the valley, below, me I see a Jaguar, very low level twisting and turning, it passes me heading out into the murk of the North Sea.
A split second later I hear the sound of not one, not two but three very fast jets. In to view below me 3 Lightning's blast down the valley. Two sticking to the Jaguars 'six' disappear into the mist over the sea. The 3rd Lightning pulls hard around the hill I am on to parallel the coast heading North, presumably to cut back into the Jag.
Never forgot the sight or sound.
Questions for those that would know
1. Would the Jag have any chance of escape, if so how ?
2.Was the Lightning any good down fast and low.
3. Did it really take 3 Lightning's to catch one Jaguar.
4. Have I got it all wrong... did the Jag need 3 Lightning's for escort protection.

Hutch
HUTCHP is offline  
Old 8th May 2024, 17:46
  #294 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 836
Received 119 Likes on 53 Posts
Well, the Jaguar wouldn’t have needed to evade them for long before the Lightnings ran out of fuel.
Timelord is offline  
The following 5 users liked this post by Timelord:
Old 9th May 2024, 01:41
  #295 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: the far south
Posts: 612
Received 36 Likes on 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Fonsini
Roland Beaumont's definitive work detailing his years testing the aircraft and then comparing it to the F-104, Mirage III, and the Delta Dart - all of which he judged to be significantly inferior.

.
What he does not mention is probably the best interceptor of its generation.. Saab Draken - half the power (a single Avon) but low drag double delta - high fuel fraction in comparison.- means it can get up enter a fight supersonic and and stay high energy past Grimsby!
Also probably had more of an integrated weapon system .
typerated is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 9th May 2024, 17:54
  #296 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 428
Received 48 Likes on 26 Posts
Not to mention the Cobra manoeuvre.....
57mm is offline  
Old 9th May 2024, 20:59
  #297 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Richard Burtonville, South Wales.
Posts: 2,349
Received 96 Likes on 57 Posts
Originally Posted by minigundiplomat
2000 yards - without refueling?
Oh, there goes another rib...

CG
charliegolf is offline  
Old 9th May 2024, 21:03
  #298 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Uranus
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
Video

Shaft109 is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by Shaft109:
Old 10th May 2024, 11:30
  #299 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 2,811
Received 1,453 Likes on 879 Posts
A Group Captain I worked with at Brampton reckoned he had broken 3. I never asked him what he thought of them.
Ninthace is offline  
Old 10th May 2024, 19:14
  #300 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kipling's Twain
Age: 72
Posts: 324
Received 61 Likes on 14 Posts
Thank you shaft109 for that Binbrook Lightning video. I flew in the airlines with several ex Lightning pilots and apart from their being exceedingly sound operators they were a bunch of delightful hooligans who enjoyed a cold beer on a hot day. Their stories after a couple of beers were outstanding and if nothing else in the world the Lightning gave some of the RAF's top pilots a place to strut their stuff.

The engineering officer in that film is being wonderfully diplomatic with the problems he had keeping the thing in the air, but remember this was the '60s and 70's and a 10-1 ground to air hours amongst the top fighters and bombers of the day was normal.

Yes it was a brilliant aircraft of its day. The pilots I spoke to all loved it like a difficult mistress, it gave magnificent service for a lot of hard work and high maintenance.

Edited to add, one ex Lightning pilot I flew with joined an international airline out of the RAF. He had filled in on the application that he had twin jet hours. When it came to the 727 (yes not -37) simulator engine failure on take off he departed the runway in fine style. Twice. His understanding first officer for the day advised him that he needed to put in some rudder and the third departure waddled into the air to the satisfaction of the check captain. He got the job
anxiao is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.