Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Was the Lightning really THAT good ?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Was the Lightning really THAT good ?

Old 29th Jul 2016, 18:23
  #261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: lincolnshire
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 3 Posts
NickB

I believe that pic was taken from a Harrier, but stand to be corrected.
I've also heard it said that Mike Thompson was piloting the Lightning, but heard others say that isn't correct...


It was indeed taken by a Harrier, and I was flying it. MoD wanted a shot of a Lightning from head on in a vertical climb over the middle of Binbrook for a recruiting poster.

R Cooke esq., rolled up at Wittering and we fitted his specially- modded camera–carrying CBLS to a T4. He sat in the back and pushed the bomb button to activate the camera on my call. Obviously he couldn’t see anything of what was going on behind us.

The Lightning pilot was Mike Thompson and he had to tuck in very close under my tail as we ran in at 400kt and pulled up over the airfield.

After viewing the shots from the first sortie, Richard said he needed the Lightning closer to the lens!

I had a quiet chat with Mike and we reflew the profile - I could feel the Lightning on the stick all the way through the manoeuvre.

Mike said he had been “pretty close” during the pull-up. I didn’t want to know how close exactly!

All the best,

ExMudmover
exMudmover is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 29th Jul 2016, 23:03
  #262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 8 Posts
Ah, the wonder of the InterWeb in general and PPRUNE in particular! I had considered asking here if anyone might happen to know any details of how Richard Cooke obtained his signature "head-on" shots (perhaps the best-known of which is the rocket-firing Harrier). No need for that, however, as I had only to wait a couple of days for xMM to authoritatively address the issue!
Vzlet is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2016, 12:58
  #263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 670
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Interesting choice of camera ship to get that Lightning shot (to the uninitiated like myself). The Harrier had many strengths as a jet and weapons platform but I never imagined vertical climbs to be a particular strength?


Could you maybe enlighten me exMM? (Weapons delivery profile maybe?)
Treble one is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2016, 13:05
  #264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 80
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I believe that at that time Mike was the Lightning display pilot
Wander00 is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2016, 13:52
  #265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Royal Berkshire
Posts: 1,780
Received 88 Likes on 46 Posts
Originally Posted by Wander00
I believe that at that time Mike was the Lightning display pilot
That would make it 1983 then. (obviously before Aug 26 of course )
GeeRam is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2016, 20:26
  #266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: lincolnshire
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Treble one
Interesting choice of camera ship to get that Lightning shot (to the uninitiated like myself). The Harrier had many strengths as a jet and weapons platform but I never imagined vertical climbs to be a particular strength?


Could you maybe enlighten me exMM? (Weapons delivery profile maybe?)
Treble one

I made an error in my original post. The run-in speed was a lot higher than 400kt, probably nearer 500. Remember also the Harrier had a high thrust to weight ratio , (even the T4), so a vertical climb was no big deal.

Regards

ExMudmover
exMudmover is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2016, 00:25
  #267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 262
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not the best taste that Geeram.
phil9560 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2016, 01:09
  #268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leicestershire, England
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by phil9560
Not the best taste that Geeram.
Why?
It's obvious what, GeeRam is referring to, it's also quite clear that no offence or bad 'taste' was intended or meant, stop looking for ill intent where there is none!

-RP
Rhino power is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2016, 01:46
  #269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 262
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes RP and Geeram fair enough.
Just me briefly being a slapped arse .
phil9560 is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2016, 10:41
  #270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 670
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Thanks Ex MM.


I confess that I thought the Harrier was a much heavier aircraft than it actually is (just done a little bit of research).


All the best
TO
Treble one is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2016, 19:34
  #271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: wales
Posts: 462
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Similar shot of XS422 in 'test pilot' series over boscombe. big camera on centreline of hawk for this.
bvcu is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2016, 18:56
  #272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 199
Received 5 Likes on 2 Posts
Surely the whole point of the Harrier was that thrust exceeded weight (except when taking off with a full load of bombs). The drag from the large intake did limit max speed though.
izod tester is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2016, 19:10
  #273 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 18,077
Received 2,129 Likes on 961 Posts
But it still lost in the helo vs Harrier time to height from "brakes off" bet.....
ORAC is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2016, 19:35
  #274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Forest of Dean
Posts: 199
Received 5 Likes on 2 Posts
But did the helo actually release the brakes?
izod tester is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2016, 20:22
  #275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 685
Received 11 Likes on 6 Posts
There was also a great shot from a 1980s TV programme (series?) related to RAF Germany that started with the camera in a high hover over a Phantom stationary at the threshold.

The Phantom began its takeoff roll, and the camera followed - I assumed a helicopter, and that the F-4 would soon accelerate out of the frame.

Not a bit of it - the camera followed in a tight shot into the climb-out.

Clearly a 2 seat Harrier; anybody else remember that, or even better remember the programme - or even even better have a link to the shot on YouTube?
hoodie is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2016, 20:47
  #276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Darlington
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think the TV programme would have been an episode of the documentary series Man Alive on BBC which was done at Wildenrath in 1980. I spoke with Graham Clarke a few years ago who had to fly the reporter, Jack Pizzey, who completed his piece to camera between retches!

It is also mentioned in David Gledhill's book The Phantom in Focus and according to him it was a Gazelle helicopter that was used for the take off sequence. Have had a look for it on Youtube but without success.
Monsun is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2016, 21:28
  #277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Frensham
Posts: 853
Received 93 Likes on 49 Posts
Monsun - this must have been the programme.

Man Alive: Phantom - BBC Two England - 1 May 1982 - BBC Genome

and a bit more from BEagle here:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...natonwide.html

I think the clip you wanted is here:

Wildenrath Phantoms Video by DeeGee | Photobucket

and a few other similar clips here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DeeG...?sort=3&page=1

Last edited by Wokkafans; 1st Aug 2016 at 21:30. Reason: Additional link
Wokkafans is online now  
Old 2nd Aug 2016, 06:41
  #278 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 18,077
Received 2,129 Likes on 961 Posts
But did the helo actually release the brakes?


As I understand no - the bet was that the helo would call brakes off, but The rules didn't insist they had to be released before either started their climb.......
ORAC is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2016, 06:50
  #279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 685
Received 11 Likes on 6 Posts
Thanks, Wokkafans and Monsun!
hoodie is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2016, 07:22
  #280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Darlington
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And many thanks to Wokkafans from me as well!
Monsun is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.