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Scottish Defence Force?

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Scottish Defence Force?

Old 31st Aug 2014, 09:03
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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She would probably say exactly what she said when he came to australia when we were in the middle of the republic debate / referendum.

It i the sign of maturity or a maturing nation that this debate is taking place.
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Old 31st Aug 2014, 09:21
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Scotland maturing? Ripe would be a better description.

PS. Forget expensive jets, equip Salmond's Nationalist Air Force with a squadron of Scottish Aviation Bulldogs and a couple of Twin Pioneers.
Then the Royal Navy can give them Lusty! Problem solved
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Old 31st Aug 2014, 22:14
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I imagine they will have a small professional force and probably nothing more. I'm trying to think of a European nation comparable and was going to say Denmark, Portugal.
Patronizing and sneering comments on here only increase the potential for ...what?
My God, Scotland was England's finest bravest friend in war, still is actually. I wonder if all of our fantastic leaders of the last 40 years, if they could be honest, could they state they got it right, their governance? Things may have been different if they had played a better hand.
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Old 31st Aug 2014, 22:41
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Scotland was England's finest bravest friend in war,
Hang on a minute, if one assumes England was formed in around 900, and the last Jacobite Rebellion was in 1746, that means the Scots were in conflict with England for the majority of 850 of the last 1100 years. During much of that time their alliances were with the French, not England.
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Old 31st Aug 2014, 22:48
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Sighs...I meant in more recent and for some living memory. It doesn't matter. Last week in Scotland I passed through a little village where its highly likely most will vote for change, yet the war memorial had been draped over with the Union Jack. Higher and disproportionate number seemed to die.
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Old 1st Sep 2014, 08:12
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Fair point
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Old 1st Sep 2014, 22:50
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The question is mate...

What will England do, when the Scots leave Britain>? Not the other way around.
England, or the Conservative Party, which is actually looking forward to the split up, has already done as much damage as it possibly can. Little wonder of the coming split.
England will be much more diminished in the long term.
We will lose our Trident and main submarine base. These will not be replaced in England and will whither thus, I predict.
We lose access to the Scottish regiments that served us all so well (every single war memorial in the British Isles tells us so even if you think I lie).
We lose the shipyards either side of the belt. We lose skilled manpower. Oil and Gas revenues and security from that. Large areas of ocean and food therein. I could go on and on.
We lose all and every way when it splits. Britain dies, that's the point.
What do we gain? Already a lot of talk in the North of England about this in the last few days and you wouldn't want to hear it. Federalism may come yet to the remainder after all. I don't think things will be rosy at all for England after the split, and I see a lot of trouble ahead for all of us.
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Old 1st Sep 2014, 22:54
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...best you tell them not to leave then. But be quick, the margin is narrowing by the day.
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Old 1st Sep 2014, 23:02
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I think its too late, its gone. I don't even think that's a mistake, I think its deliberate on Englands side, to an extent. The Queen is silent, the PM wont debate, Parliament wont reform and not enough people have given out enough noise to defend the union, to defend Britain. The Yes campaign have a movement of their own. To cap it all the recent reactionary war drum tub thumping by a pink faced Cameron have finally sealed it IMHO. That and the MP for North Somerset. Even I would vote for a way out via the Yes campaign if I thought he had a say in my life.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 00:49
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You mark my words, 10 years on and it would split. The Lowlands would throw in their lot with Northern Ireland, while the Highlands and the RoI would become the Gaelic Republic. 100 years further on and we'd all be back together again as a septic colony. Magic Roundabout, anybody? (I speak as a one who has British and Irish citizenship, just like the er, harrumph, baby Blairs do through the scouse g!t.)
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 03:21
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"What do we gain? Already a lot of talk in the North of England about this in the last few days and you wouldn't want to hear it. Federalism may come yet to the remainder after all. I don't think things will be rosy at all for England after the split, and I see a lot of trouble ahead for all of us."

Nonsense. I live in Northumberland, and there has been no such thing. The Scots i fly with think its ridiculous, and the Geordies just joke about cashing in on all the passport/immigration posts there would have to be.

England is and always will be a united nation of 60 million people. North and south.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 10:44
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Standby for a yes vote

Unfortunately I think you are right CM, we need to start getting ready for the yes vote.

I have always worried that we are sleepwalking into a disaster. When you are campaigning against ideologists you really need a plan. "It is okay, they will see sense!" is not a plan.

If the real nationalists were in a majority I would not have an issue, goodbye and good luck. But they seem to be around 20% of the population. With maybe 20 - 25% unionists, that means the majority are neither and are voting based on short term issues and economics. The snag is that Tony's stupid war and Thatcher's poll tax experiment (and other short term issues) has provided a platform the Nationalists to argue they would be better on their own. (By the way I think Thatcher did far more right than wrong. Blair's war was wrong! I went to GW1 without any concerns, it was the right thing to do. Was outside by the time of GW2 and really could not buy into the justification!)

The shame is that this referendum has been run by politicians. They are running it like an election rather than a history changing decision. So we now have Salmond and his gang promising anything and everything, twisting every unionist quote, in fact anything to maximise the yes vote, like all politicians at election time. However, it is worse as there is no counter balance of,"if it is that easy, why did you not do it last time you were in power?" So people believe what he says. The truth is I suspect they will not be nearly as successful as the NATS will have people believe, but nor will they fall flat on their face. More likely both countries will spend a fortune on structural changes and relocations, the biggest being Trident, all for us all to be a little worse off! Is that really worth changing history for?

Probably the wrong forum for this depressed rant. I am sorry if offends. Just think this is massive for all of us, but we are sleep walking into it!

Last edited by PeterGee; 2nd Sep 2014 at 11:14.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 11:44
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I agree entirely, Peter.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 11:50
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I have the honour, Ma'am, to report

I wonder how Cameron would appraoch his first Tuesday Chat with Brenda after a 'Yes' vote.
"I have the honour, Ma'am, to report that I am the first Prime Minister of Your reign to cede part of Your Sovereign territory (HK was end of lease return) to foreign control. Clearly, Ma'am, this is the triumphant fulfillment of Your Government's policy, announced in Your Majesty's Gracious Speech from the Throne, blah blah"
Brenda? Amused? Shurely shome mishtake...
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 12:16
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HM would probably remind DC that Scotland acquired England, not the other way round; and it is exercising what it sees as its right to offload it again.

MoD do have a cunning plan. SDSR 15 will be delayed.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 13:05
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the political gossip at westminster is that Dave would resign as PM in the event of a 'yes' vote...
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 13:30
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Your Sovereign territory (HK was end of lease return) to foreign control.
Now, you see, you go around calling Scots foreigners in their own country and then you wonder why they might vote for independence.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 13:55
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I would not trust Salmond further than I could kick him.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 15:53
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Having watched both of the debates between Salmond and Darling over the last few weeks, I came to the conclusion that the biggest push factor in Salmonds armoury was in fact having Darling in opposition. I have never seen such a weak, pathetic and inept performance from a politician (Darling) in living memory and he alone will probably account for a 20% swing to a 'Yes' vote.

However, if there is any substance to the rumour:

the political gossip at westminster is that Dave would resign as PM in the event of a 'yes' vote...
and if that rumour was to strongly circulate around Scotland, then that will pretty much seal the fate in favour of independance.
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Old 2nd Sep 2014, 16:18
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the political gossip at westminster is that Dave would resign as PM in the event of a 'yes' vote...
So a yes vote wouldn't be all bad then.....
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