Red Arrows: Inside the Bubble
It's easy to just say "I liked it very much" as if that's some sort of answer.
I notice the aircraft were referred to as "jets" throughout, and not just by the presenter. This jarred at first, but I assume that for display commentary purposes "jets" is simpler than "aircraft".
(Yes, I know they are jets
)
Must be a new thing, spent 7 years flying in "jets" and don't ever remember them being referred to as such - always aircraft. However, things change, 30 years earlier we'd have been talking about "kites"!
I've finally seen the object of all the consternation and I have to say that some of you are being very critical (as is your right, obviously.). It certainly opened my eyes. Bloody good, I thought. I withdraw my lifelong comment of "Well, they should be good at it when they do it all the time."
The programme was well pitched for flyers and the public alike.
As for "jets", that's what they've always been called as long as I can recall.
The programme was well pitched for flyers and the public alike.
As for "jets", that's what they've always been called as long as I can recall.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Livingston, Scotland
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hm... This isn't quite what I was thinking of, but it's a rather stunning documentary of the Reds from 1967 I turned up while looking:
Reminds me of my first sight of them at Binbrook in 1972-ish at a families day display or something of the sort. They approached from the south, and flew in extremely low over the line of hangars. The abiding memory is of seeing the entire control tower staff duck in unison.
Originally Posted by Parson:
That would be Red Arrows - A Quiver of Silver shown on BBC1 in 1990. It does indeed include Lee Jones describing the early days of The Yellowjacks, amongst other things.
The Team was led by Tim Miller and many famous faces are in the programme. Brian Hoskins was the Stn Cdr at Akrotiri during the winter work-up.
Lee Jones' description of the Gnat fuse 13 saga is a classic!
Fortunately my VHS copy has survived and is now saved to DVD. No, I won't be making any other copies
Programme had a few interesting insights but in general was poor compared to the 25th anniversary programme in '89.... if you can remember that far back...
The Team was led by Tim Miller and many famous faces are in the programme. Brian Hoskins was the Stn Cdr at Akrotiri during the winter work-up.
Lee Jones' description of the Gnat fuse 13 saga is a classic!
Fortunately my VHS copy has survived and is now saved to DVD. No, I won't be making any other copies
Beags- around that time the team had a very enterprising Manager (Andy Stewart, who went on to be CO of ULAS) and Tim Miller as Red 1. It was around that time they had a famous Japanese film maker with an unpronounceable name make a film of the team - it was absolutely brilliant - that might be the one to which you refer. I was lucky enough to be involved with the Team as a Trustee of the RA Trust. Happy times.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kluseau - good find, thanks. In the 70's it was really the only film (Super 8!!) we could take to the many 'talks'/presentations' we did for colleges, clubs etc and despite poor old Arthur's 'continuity lapses' it was always well received.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The US of A, and sometimes Bonnie Scotland
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MPN11
Is your beef about this programme, the fact that the AOC "could have changed out of his flying suit"??!!
Really??
Really??
REALLY??!!
Oh, FFS. Why oh why do folks post such tripe.
THE PROGRAMME IS ABOUT THE R E D A R R O W S.
NOT the AOC's wardrobe.
I give up...
If your comment is ironic, I'm afraid it's lost on me
Is your beef about this programme, the fact that the AOC "could have changed out of his flying suit"??!!
Really??
Really??
REALLY??!!
Oh, FFS. Why oh why do folks post such tripe.
THE PROGRAMME IS ABOUT THE R E D A R R O W S.
NOT the AOC's wardrobe.
I give up...
If your comment is ironic, I'm afraid it's lost on me
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of Old Warden
Age: 87
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
In the early '80's I used a film of the Red Arrows to kick off my company's annual business seminar. It certainly impressed the attendees, to the extent that, for some days afterwards some managers would end any instructions to their staff with a sharp 'GO!'
I suspect their base height was somewhat lower than today's limit.
I never flew in the back seat of a Gnat - my great respect for instructors at Valley has increased ten-fold - and I apologise for frightening all of you!
I never flew in the back seat of a Gnat - my great respect for instructors at Valley has increased ten-fold - and I apologise for frightening all of you!
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tankertrash I wasn't criticising anyone for liking the programme - each to his own and all that. My point was that from an objective viewpoint, the programme was a load of garbage. I'm glad to have subsequently learned that I'm not the only person who thought so. Naturally, just getting the Reds on TV is nice, but taking aside one's liking for aircraft or the Reds, the actual programme was rubbish. Could have been written/produced by a school kid. Don't know how the Beeb had the nerve to describe it as a documentary.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Far North of Watford
Age: 82
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WH904
It was a documentary because it documented the start of the training season and the run up to PDA for two new RAFAT pilots. It did it well, sympathetically, without undue dramatisation but with enough to hold the public viewer's interest. It showed that the RAFAT pilots are normal young men with a special talent, not arrogant prima donnas, and that to achieve the required standard of flying requires incredible determination, commitment, nerve and above all teamwork.
It did not set out to be a documentary about RAFAT's history, how it is organised, administered and operated, which is presumably what you were hoping for.
We know your opinion of it. Of course you would have done it much better. Now PLEASE give it a rest.
It was a documentary because it documented the start of the training season and the run up to PDA for two new RAFAT pilots. It did it well, sympathetically, without undue dramatisation but with enough to hold the public viewer's interest. It showed that the RAFAT pilots are normal young men with a special talent, not arrogant prima donnas, and that to achieve the required standard of flying requires incredible determination, commitment, nerve and above all teamwork.
It did not set out to be a documentary about RAFAT's history, how it is organised, administered and operated, which is presumably what you were hoping for.
We know your opinion of it. Of course you would have done it much better. Now PLEASE give it a rest.
Last edited by Genstabler; 4th Aug 2014 at 10:31.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: WOOTTON BASSETT, WILTS
Age: 74
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont generally catch this sort of tv programme, and really only started watching as I couldn't find the remote. However, having deliberately avoided anything to do with the Red Arrows over the years, I was stunned, not only by the quality of the flying display, but also by the aerial photography.
Never keen on the modern 'reality tv' approach applied to tv documentries these days where there is always a phoney crisis just before the ad breaks etc (ok it was the beeb but you get the drift); poor wifey at home etc, and the worst crisis was a foot rest not retracting fully. I couldnt be made to care whether the new recruits passed or not, probably easier than getting thro the Lightning OCU and they still have an excellent future ahead of them.
My biggest surprise was the ground crew...... no 'Mustache Petes'; overalls that go all the way round, no sumpy shorts that have gone 3 dozen engine changes between washes, no oil saturated bondu boots, not a grease covered mitt to be seen squeezing a tea bag into a stained mug. no nude sunbathing down on the beach with a day-glo pig or whatever stuck on their backsides....it was Cyprus for heavens sake. Not a sign of a Green Rock induced hangover. In fact they made the AOC look the scruffiest geezer in the programme.
I cringed at the pongo-esque drill routine on the see-offs, simply doesnt look business-like,and as for removing ear defenders by numbers.......but my word,
I thought they where a credit to the unit.
I really hope that the relationship between the linies and the aircrew was as depicted, too often strained in my time.
Respect to the Reds, respect to the programme makers
Never keen on the modern 'reality tv' approach applied to tv documentries these days where there is always a phoney crisis just before the ad breaks etc (ok it was the beeb but you get the drift); poor wifey at home etc, and the worst crisis was a foot rest not retracting fully. I couldnt be made to care whether the new recruits passed or not, probably easier than getting thro the Lightning OCU and they still have an excellent future ahead of them.
My biggest surprise was the ground crew...... no 'Mustache Petes'; overalls that go all the way round, no sumpy shorts that have gone 3 dozen engine changes between washes, no oil saturated bondu boots, not a grease covered mitt to be seen squeezing a tea bag into a stained mug. no nude sunbathing down on the beach with a day-glo pig or whatever stuck on their backsides....it was Cyprus for heavens sake. Not a sign of a Green Rock induced hangover. In fact they made the AOC look the scruffiest geezer in the programme.
I cringed at the pongo-esque drill routine on the see-offs, simply doesnt look business-like,and as for removing ear defenders by numbers.......but my word,
I thought they where a credit to the unit.
I really hope that the relationship between the linies and the aircrew was as depicted, too often strained in my time.
Respect to the Reds, respect to the programme makers
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now PLEASE give it a rest.
How very rude. If you don't want to debate a point then don't.
You've made some sweeping assertions about what the documentary set-out to do. Obviously I should point out that your presumption of what I expected is wrong, but you'd know that if you'd bothered to read my previous posts. Likewise, you can't make any claims as to what the documentary set-out to do, because you did't make it. All any of us can do is make a judgement as viewers and license payers.
pbk it's interesting that you thought the aerial photography was good. As you said, you've avoided the subject for some years, so it's likely that your view was shared by a lot of viewers. The sad thing is, the aerial photography was actually rubbish. When one recalls some of the quality stuff that has been achieved in the past, the BBC stuff was awful. It was particularly sad that the lenses used gave the impression that the Hawks are some distance from each other during the display. None of the photography gave a real impression of how close the aircraft are, nor any impression of the continual (and often quite violent) movement that takes place. Fundamental points that any decent documentary should have tried to portray.
How very rude. If you don't want to debate a point then don't.
You've made some sweeping assertions about what the documentary set-out to do. Obviously I should point out that your presumption of what I expected is wrong, but you'd know that if you'd bothered to read my previous posts. Likewise, you can't make any claims as to what the documentary set-out to do, because you did't make it. All any of us can do is make a judgement as viewers and license payers.
pbk it's interesting that you thought the aerial photography was good. As you said, you've avoided the subject for some years, so it's likely that your view was shared by a lot of viewers. The sad thing is, the aerial photography was actually rubbish. When one recalls some of the quality stuff that has been achieved in the past, the BBC stuff was awful. It was particularly sad that the lenses used gave the impression that the Hawks are some distance from each other during the display. None of the photography gave a real impression of how close the aircraft are, nor any impression of the continual (and often quite violent) movement that takes place. Fundamental points that any decent documentary should have tried to portray.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of Old Warden
Age: 87
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
WH904 Of the 136 posts on this thread you have made 17. The next number of posts is 9!
May I suggest you've made your point.
As someone pointed out earlier, 'don't continue the sales chat after the sale is completed.'
May I suggest you've made your point.
As someone pointed out earlier, 'don't continue the sales chat after the sale is completed.'
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by WH
nor any impression of the continual (and often quite violent) movement that takes place.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with WH904 that the lenses didn't show the true proximity of the aircraft and an opportunity was missed to show the dynamic nature of the formation. On the whole though, I thought it was a pretty good show.
Good luck to the FNGs - they've got a great 3 and a bit years ahead of them.
STP
Good luck to the FNGs - they've got a great 3 and a bit years ahead of them.
STP