No Waddington show - what happens now?
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The RAF are stopping the RAF.
Somebody in the corridors of power is convinced that operational overstretch and support of public events are the nemesis of one another, and that actually promoting such an event sends the wrong message to Govt. I understand the theory, but disagree that it is an accurate or even appropriate reflection of the state of the RAF these days. For sure once air shows / open days are gone, you will never get them back.
Its all very well putting all the RAF eggs into the RIAT basket, but I do wonder if that is the best way to put the RAF on the map due to the RAF being lost in a sea of competition. A modest input from NATO and the US in both air and static displays and the RAF may as well not be there at all. The RAF village concept (keeping all associated stands together) has its merits, but the flip side is that it is also very easy to completely miss the whole lot, as happened to many at Earls Court last year.
Somebody in the corridors of power is convinced that operational overstretch and support of public events are the nemesis of one another, and that actually promoting such an event sends the wrong message to Govt. I understand the theory, but disagree that it is an accurate or even appropriate reflection of the state of the RAF these days. For sure once air shows / open days are gone, you will never get them back.
Its all very well putting all the RAF eggs into the RIAT basket, but I do wonder if that is the best way to put the RAF on the map due to the RAF being lost in a sea of competition. A modest input from NATO and the US in both air and static displays and the RAF may as well not be there at all. The RAF village concept (keeping all associated stands together) has its merits, but the flip side is that it is also very easy to completely miss the whole lot, as happened to many at Earls Court last year.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think it's fair to say that the RAF has always lagged way behind the Royal Navy when it comes to promotion and public relations. Clearly, there's no reason why an awful lot cannot be done if the will is there. It's just that the will isn't there. It's far too easy to proverbially throw one's hands in the air and claim that rules and regulations, operational commitments, costs, etc., all conspire to make shows impossible. It's nonsense. Nothing is impossible.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is a shame that for at least one weekend a year, every flying squadron can not present an aircraft to the public at a collective display. If the British public doesn't understand airpower, perhaps a PR 'show of force' might help in the matter?
We used to put on some really good fire power demo's not too many years ago, in the days when we had F3's, and GR4's that were allowed to fly at weekends. AT and SH played too!
We used to put on some really good fire power demo's not too many years ago, in the days when we had F3's, and GR4's that were allowed to fly at weekends. AT and SH played too!
I understand that the "pongo" in charge at Cottesmore was approached by the RAF to see if he minded having the Four Counties Gliding Club on his patch as the club is being ousted from Wittering by the expansion there.
The reaction was a firm negative as flying activities would affect dog walking in the airfield!
So not much chance of a big RAF airshow then.
The reaction was a firm negative as flying activities would affect dog walking in the airfield!
So not much chance of a big RAF airshow then.
I can see that the RAF will throw their lot in with RIAT, though if they do one hopes that there will be a few more airframes to see than there was at the weekend.
It seems a bit paradoxical, as the RAF have supported shows and displays all through the last few years when there has been heavy deployment overseas, and now that these assorted operations are finally winding down, they say they can't support them as they did.
It seems a bit paradoxical, as the RAF have supported shows and displays all through the last few years when there has been heavy deployment overseas, and now that these assorted operations are finally winding down, they say they can't support them as they did.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If that's what really happened at Cottesmore, then it just illustrates that inter-service childishness still persists. If so, then I agree it's another reason why a show is never going to happen at Cottesmore. One would have thought that by now the armed forces could operate together and stop acting like school kids.
I agree it would be a sad move if the RAF simply threw its weight (such as it is) behind RIAT. That show is already far from popular with a lot of aviation enthusiasts, plus it's in a lousy location unless one happens to live in the region. Having said that, I would think it's the most likely outcome, sadly.
I agree it would be a sad move if the RAF simply threw its weight (such as it is) behind RIAT. That show is already far from popular with a lot of aviation enthusiasts, plus it's in a lousy location unless one happens to live in the region. Having said that, I would think it's the most likely outcome, sadly.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,892
Received 2,831 Likes
on
1,209 Posts
The reaction was a firm negative as flying activities would affect dog walking in the airfield!
preparing for incoming......
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree it would be a sad move if the RAF simply threw its weight (such as it is) behind RIAT. That show is already far from popular with a lot of aviation enthusiasts, plus it's in a lousy location unless one happens to live in the region. Having said that, I would think it's the most likely outcome, sadly.
For sure Fairford is not an optimal location to be the only air show supported by the RAF in a 'showcase' event to satisfy the documented aims of GAI2022 to the whole country. In fairness, no single location could be expected to do so.
RIAT also has its own brand and method of doing business, and I cannot see that changing anytime soon to provide the smoke and mirrors covering the reality of the RAF putting overt PR into file 13. The Navy must be rubbing their hands in glee over this, especially the organisers at Yeovilton who still get the discounted RAF assets that RAF events do not get! RAF air shows do not get any discount for RAF assets whereas the Navy and Army events do get 50% discount. It was not always like this; but it is this year, such is the loss of appetite to sponsor blue suit events.
Originally Posted by WH904
If that's what really happened at Cottesmore,....
Not everything you read on the Internet is necessarily true.
Last edited by diginagain; 14th Jul 2014 at 20:02.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 4 Civvy Street. Nowhere-near-a-base. The Shires.
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
There really are not that many RAF airfields left in England that could host this, apart from EGDL - decent runway + loads of aircraft parking - and as for the earlier suggestion "draft personnel in from elsewhere"...
There are barely 30000 of us now and few aircraft. BBMF and RAFAT will surely be appearing near most of the population next year - I think that's plenty to keep the service in the public eye.
Who cares if Waddington doesn't host another? Since it became the ISTAR hub the place is far too sensitive to let 1000's of unknowns roam about the place anyway.
There are barely 30000 of us now and few aircraft. BBMF and RAFAT will surely be appearing near most of the population next year - I think that's plenty to keep the service in the public eye.
Who cares if Waddington doesn't host another? Since it became the ISTAR hub the place is far too sensitive to let 1000's of unknowns roam about the place anyway.
how about something a bit more inventive?
instead of one, or two, or three big airfield based events that the public go to, who not much larger numbers of smaller events where the the RAF - and AAC/RN - go to the public?
do a fast jet display along the north Cornwall coast on the last weekend of July and you'll be seen by tens of thousands, same with Pembrokeshire, Studland, Brighton, Blackpool etc... no logistics, no moving crews and support, no massive car parking and public transport efforts, and no associating the RAF with something of a rip-off...
a couple of GR4's doing a mock attack with lots of noise and flares over the bay at the weston air display would have been spectacular, you could do wokka's dropping RIB's, C-130's doing beach landings and para drops (and lots of flares..
), Apache or Lynx doing stomach churning aerobatic displays, C-17, Sentry, Sentinal, RJ or Voyager with Typhoons doing a show of force - pick the date and locations and the RAF could be seen flying by hundreds of thousands of people for the cost of two hours flying and a working saturday.
people want to have the hairs on the back of their necks raised, they want to go 'ooooh', 'aaaaah', and 'fcuk me backwards that was noisy/impressive' - paying £100 for a family of four to spend 4 hours in a traffic jam and then walk around some parked aircraft is not how the public want to see their Air Force.
instead of one, or two, or three big airfield based events that the public go to, who not much larger numbers of smaller events where the the RAF - and AAC/RN - go to the public?
do a fast jet display along the north Cornwall coast on the last weekend of July and you'll be seen by tens of thousands, same with Pembrokeshire, Studland, Brighton, Blackpool etc... no logistics, no moving crews and support, no massive car parking and public transport efforts, and no associating the RAF with something of a rip-off...
a couple of GR4's doing a mock attack with lots of noise and flares over the bay at the weston air display would have been spectacular, you could do wokka's dropping RIB's, C-130's doing beach landings and para drops (and lots of flares..
), Apache or Lynx doing stomach churning aerobatic displays, C-17, Sentry, Sentinal, RJ or Voyager with Typhoons doing a show of force - pick the date and locations and the RAF could be seen flying by hundreds of thousands of people for the cost of two hours flying and a working saturday.people want to have the hairs on the back of their necks raised, they want to go 'ooooh', 'aaaaah', and 'fcuk me backwards that was noisy/impressive' - paying £100 for a family of four to spend 4 hours in a traffic jam and then walk around some parked aircraft is not how the public want to see their Air Force.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've suggested things like this before, both on here and elsewhere. But "blue sky thinking" is ultimately pointless, as nobody has any power to influence the RAF's thinking. They'll do whatever the bean counters and PR people recommend, and we can all make a fairly good guess at what will happen - a few noises about maybe having another Waddington show if we're lucky or (more likely) a decision to abandon all shows and put their support behind RIAT. Any other outcome seems distinctly unlikely.
Personally, I guess I'm just lamenting the loss of all the RAF's air shows, but I don't imagine there's any way out of this. In an ideal world we could look at staging a really good show at a suitable base, be it Cottesmore or elsewhere, but it's not going to happen of course. If a show of any sort survives it will be quite a surprise I think.
Personally, I guess I'm just lamenting the loss of all the RAF's air shows, but I don't imagine there's any way out of this. In an ideal world we could look at staging a really good show at a suitable base, be it Cottesmore or elsewhere, but it's not going to happen of course. If a show of any sort survives it will be quite a surprise I think.
Because, (I am told), it is about to close and have a large number of houses built on it!! Do you remember the days when the RAF (UK) en-route document had a list of 12 Master Div. airfields on the back? Things have changed!!
Wyton
Arclite 01, sorry I missed out your c/s and the fact I was talking about Wyton!!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
people want to have the hairs on the back of their necks raised, they want to go 'ooooh', 'aaaaah', and 'fcuk me backwards that was noisy/impressive' - paying £100 for a family of four to spend 4 hours in a traffic jam and then walk around some parked aircraft is not how the public want to see their Air Force.
People instead were enjoying the ground displays, funfair and sunday market.
The Army display with its AFV & tanks that kids could climb all over was especially popular. The aerobatic team that were it has to be said: Excellent, were getting a stiff ignoring from anyone more than a few metres from the crowdline.
IMHO the way ahead is for an RAF led military tattoo that incorporates the other Armed Forces with some of the 'flying displays' purple in nature. Instead of individual Peeing contests, the UK Defence Force could actually demonstrate themselves to be a cohesive fighting force that optimises the Defence Budget to good effect. ..... And then I woke up!
(at Cottesmore and either Leeming or Dishforth)
RAF Valley had a good display in years gone by.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,892
Received 2,831 Likes
on
1,209 Posts
Saints did a good show in the past too.
Surely hurtling along a coast is not ideal as you are in a high bird activity environment.
You also will be bereft of any foreign participation if you do not have a base to operate them from.
It really does require a more Midlands / Northern based venue, RIAT will attract a greater percentage from the London area, Waddington picking up a higher proportion from t'up norfh.
I am surprised that the likes of Cottersmore couldn't be re activated, after all surely the RAF have the capability to re activate an airfields in a war.... A good exercise really.
Surely hurtling along a coast is not ideal as you are in a high bird activity environment.
You also will be bereft of any foreign participation if you do not have a base to operate them from.
It really does require a more Midlands / Northern based venue, RIAT will attract a greater percentage from the London area, Waddington picking up a higher proportion from t'up norfh.
I am surprised that the likes of Cottersmore couldn't be re activated, after all surely the RAF have the capability to re activate an airfields in a war.... A good exercise really.
Last edited by NutLoose; 14th Jul 2014 at 21:22.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tiger, I agree entirely. I made a point of observing what was going on during the Waddington show. It's remarkable how many people don't even look at the flying display aircraft, especially youngsters. Most of the kids I noticed were playing football, not looking at the aircraft.
It's symptomatic of the way things are now. As you'll see on an adjacent thread, some numpty has had a go at me for supporting the interests of enthusiasts. As usual, he thinks we're worthless - shows are all about entertaining kids it seems. If that's really true, then they're evidently doing a pretty poor job!
It's symptomatic of the way things are now. As you'll see on an adjacent thread, some numpty has had a go at me for supporting the interests of enthusiasts. As usual, he thinks we're worthless - shows are all about entertaining kids it seems. If that's really true, then they're evidently doing a pretty poor job!