No Waddington show - what happens now?
I have to agree. I've attended a lot of shows in the last 30-odd years and I'm always amazed at how many people do anything other than watch the aircraft. I've seen them sunbathing, playing sports, spend most of the day in the funfair etc. The sunbathers get me; you paid how much to get a tan? Why didn't you just stay in the back garden?
I like the idea of smaller events showcasing the armed forces, and would agree that they don't always have to be on an airfield. Although, as a youngster part of the appeal of going to Culdrose or St. Mawgan was that of visiting somewhere that is normally out of bounds.
Israel hold a number of open days at military airfields during the same week every year, with good static displays, plenty of armoured equipment to look at, some catering and some diversions for the kiddies. There's not always a flying display, but at least some flypasts or an aerial demo or two. I went to the open days at Haifa and Ramat David five or six years back, and was very impressed with what was on show, particularly with Israel's understandable security concerns. The events were to show the Israeli public what their taxes went towards, and that is what is really what it is all about, surely?
On that vein, whatever happened to the Exhibition Flight and the Presentation Team? And I take it town shows are a thing of the past as well?
I like the idea of smaller events showcasing the armed forces, and would agree that they don't always have to be on an airfield. Although, as a youngster part of the appeal of going to Culdrose or St. Mawgan was that of visiting somewhere that is normally out of bounds.
Israel hold a number of open days at military airfields during the same week every year, with good static displays, plenty of armoured equipment to look at, some catering and some diversions for the kiddies. There's not always a flying display, but at least some flypasts or an aerial demo or two. I went to the open days at Haifa and Ramat David five or six years back, and was very impressed with what was on show, particularly with Israel's understandable security concerns. The events were to show the Israeli public what their taxes went towards, and that is what is really what it is all about, surely?
On that vein, whatever happened to the Exhibition Flight and the Presentation Team? And I take it town shows are a thing of the past as well?
The RNALF have the right idea, a free airshow every year where they 'show off' their airforce through a series of role demos and imaginative static displays that show off the full breadth of their activities. I went to the one at Volkel when I was on loan to the AAC, and I've got to say it was great. F-16's attacked the base then a formation of Chinook and Cougars dropped off troops, then a C-130 resupplied vehicles / refuelled the cabs. Meanwhile a KC-10 refuelled an F-16, etc.
The kids loved the pyro display, and afterwards they got to sit in, play with most of the kit that had taken part. Good work KLU fellas!
The kids loved the pyro display, and afterwards they got to sit in, play with most of the kit that had taken part. Good work KLU fellas!
I've just filled in an emailed questionaire from the Waddington airshow people wanting to know if I'll be looking to attend the 2016 airshow and what they can do to improve things for me. The tone of the email did seem to indicate that they are definitely planning one. Can't quite understand why it would be all that difficult to hold one somewhere else in 2015. Would Coningsby honestly not do? If not, why not?
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Wow, reading this makes me appreciate how desperate things have got when the best (only) alternatives to Waddington are both none RAF locations, one of which isn't really an airfield anymore!
As for 2015 specifically then where there's a will there's a way I guess��
As for 2015 specifically then where there's a will there's a way I guess��
Would Coningsby honestly not do? If not, why not?
Coningsby is a non starter as the road's get blocked up with just the normal commute into work by the station personnel, plus the crowd line that can be put in is minuscule (there are only two access roads into to the camp area the B1192 (North / South) and the A153 (East / West). Plus of course there is the QRA commitment. (yes I know Leuchars did an Airshow with QRA, but that airfield isn't as packed as Coningsby is).
Last edited by MAINJAFAD; 15th Jul 2014 at 23:22.
MAINJAFAD,
How did they manage with a regular airshow from the 1970s through to 1993?
How did Leuchars manage from 1945 to 2013? Or are you about to tell me they never had a QRA commitment and the roads around there are six lanes wide!
FB
How did they manage with a regular airshow from the 1970s through to 1993?
How did Leuchars manage from 1945 to 2013? Or are you about to tell me they never had a QRA commitment and the roads around there are six lanes wide!
FB
Just picking up on mainjafad's observations and various others, it really strikes me how little the past has any bearing on what we think can and can't be achieved now. While its quite a way back, in 1965 when the R.A.F. celebrated the 25th Anniversary of the Battle of Britain, 12 R.A.F. stations were all open, all simultaneously. Not any where near as many as the 70 odd mentioned earlier (which was certainly the case) but relative to today, outrageous.
Further, we're not talking stations here which were carefully picked so as not to interfere with the delicate nature of of frontline operations. They included 3 V-Bomber stations; Cottesmore, Finningley and Waddington and two Fighter stations; Coltishall and Leuchars, also included was Biggin Hill, which had to commandeer the airfield every year from civilian control just to stage the "at home" day. There were two Transport bases; Abingdon and Colerne, St Mawgan, fully operational with the ASW role and 3 Squadrons of Shackletons.
No doubt anyone reading this would think ah yes but we had the resources then! But did we?
Of just 9 Vulcan Sqns, 17 aircraft (at least) were participants in the flying, including 4 solos, the rest scramble demos. 45 Lightnings flew, but there were only 6 Squadrons available plus the O.C.U. One of the Squadrons, 56, didn't participate, they had just returned from an overseas detachment but still offered a 4-ship display just 3 days before to anyone that would be happy to accept, the only taker was ultimately deemed too far with all that would be involved, St Mawgan I think, because it was determined that an overnight stay would be required when they needed to be at Wattisham bright and early on Sunday morning for the church service flypast. So, what was so less of a demand on the operational hit the ground running R.A.F. of 1965 than today. Remember of course that while today they've had Afghanistan, then they had Aden, the knife edge readiness of the 2nd T.A.F. in Germany, the V-Bomber stations also stood at a moment's reflex to launch Armageddon as the country's primary nuclear deterrent. Speaking of which, 4 of the afore mentioned Vulcans all came from 617 Sqn, one of the 3 Blue Steel units, they provided a demonstration quick reaction scramble at Finningley. The two Leuchars Squadrons, each sharing the Northern Q between them, and having already started intercepting Bears and Bisons as well as deploying for months at a time to stand guard in case they were needed to escort transport aircraft down the Berlin corridor, something which happened more than once or twice. One can only conclude that the real change is in the scale by which we judge the demand on resources and how it is justified to the wider public. Oh and you could walk or cycle past onto the each of the at home stations for free as well!
FB
Further, we're not talking stations here which were carefully picked so as not to interfere with the delicate nature of of frontline operations. They included 3 V-Bomber stations; Cottesmore, Finningley and Waddington and two Fighter stations; Coltishall and Leuchars, also included was Biggin Hill, which had to commandeer the airfield every year from civilian control just to stage the "at home" day. There were two Transport bases; Abingdon and Colerne, St Mawgan, fully operational with the ASW role and 3 Squadrons of Shackletons.
No doubt anyone reading this would think ah yes but we had the resources then! But did we?
Of just 9 Vulcan Sqns, 17 aircraft (at least) were participants in the flying, including 4 solos, the rest scramble demos. 45 Lightnings flew, but there were only 6 Squadrons available plus the O.C.U. One of the Squadrons, 56, didn't participate, they had just returned from an overseas detachment but still offered a 4-ship display just 3 days before to anyone that would be happy to accept, the only taker was ultimately deemed too far with all that would be involved, St Mawgan I think, because it was determined that an overnight stay would be required when they needed to be at Wattisham bright and early on Sunday morning for the church service flypast. So, what was so less of a demand on the operational hit the ground running R.A.F. of 1965 than today. Remember of course that while today they've had Afghanistan, then they had Aden, the knife edge readiness of the 2nd T.A.F. in Germany, the V-Bomber stations also stood at a moment's reflex to launch Armageddon as the country's primary nuclear deterrent. Speaking of which, 4 of the afore mentioned Vulcans all came from 617 Sqn, one of the 3 Blue Steel units, they provided a demonstration quick reaction scramble at Finningley. The two Leuchars Squadrons, each sharing the Northern Q between them, and having already started intercepting Bears and Bisons as well as deploying for months at a time to stand guard in case they were needed to escort transport aircraft down the Berlin corridor, something which happened more than once or twice. One can only conclude that the real change is in the scale by which we judge the demand on resources and how it is justified to the wider public. Oh and you could walk or cycle past onto the each of the at home stations for free as well!
FB
Although, as a youngster part of the appeal of going to Culdrose or St. Mawgan was that of visiting somewhere that is normally out of bounds.
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As Wittering is going to be re activated, could they not use that next year?
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Wittering is a perfectly viable location. So is Scampton, so is Cottesmore, none is perfect but all three could be used if the will was there. Point is, the will isn't there. As far as I can determine, there is no interest in relocating the show. The concern now seems to be whether any show at all will re-emerge in 2016.
Maybe the way forward is to look at a pseudo-IAT type of event that has direct RAF support, but is organised without the RAF. No reason why a show couldn't return to Finningley. It was a monumentally popular event, and at a perfect location. The airport isn't really an issue - there are so few flights they could be accommodated within a show (this has been done at other airport show venues). One would think that Peel would welcome a huge event to publicise the airport too.
Rewind, take Finningley's show back from Waddington and return it to Finningley! Sorry, Doncaster/Sheffield *cough* *spit*
Maybe the way forward is to look at a pseudo-IAT type of event that has direct RAF support, but is organised without the RAF. No reason why a show couldn't return to Finningley. It was a monumentally popular event, and at a perfect location. The airport isn't really an issue - there are so few flights they could be accommodated within a show (this has been done at other airport show venues). One would think that Peel would welcome a huge event to publicise the airport too.
Rewind, take Finningley's show back from Waddington and return it to Finningley! Sorry, Doncaster/Sheffield *cough* *spit*
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^^^ What he said - however:
The logistics of holding an air show involve providing accomodation for air/groundcrews and is dependent upon the influx of hundreds of Servicemen who also require accomodating. Waddington and Cosford use University Accomodation that is vacated during the summer months. I dont know what Finningley used to use, but can reasonably speculate that Mess' and barrack blocks that are no longer there were maxed out. If the RAF were unwilling to provide a (traditionally phase one student) workforce, the event is a none starter.
All hypothetical as I understand that as I type the meeting is taking place at Air Command that will conclude with a recomendation to CAS. Whatever the writing on the wall says, we are likely to find out fairly soon. Taxpayers prefer a tax hold and increased pay in their pocket to a day out watching aeroplanes and eating overpriced burgers. Without a dedicated budget approval .... Why is that chap putting a black hood over his head and picking up an axe?
The logistics of holding an air show involve providing accomodation for air/groundcrews and is dependent upon the influx of hundreds of Servicemen who also require accomodating. Waddington and Cosford use University Accomodation that is vacated during the summer months. I dont know what Finningley used to use, but can reasonably speculate that Mess' and barrack blocks that are no longer there were maxed out. If the RAF were unwilling to provide a (traditionally phase one student) workforce, the event is a none starter.
All hypothetical as I understand that as I type the meeting is taking place at Air Command that will conclude with a recomendation to CAS. Whatever the writing on the wall says, we are likely to find out fairly soon. Taxpayers prefer a tax hold and increased pay in their pocket to a day out watching aeroplanes and eating overpriced burgers. Without a dedicated budget approval .... Why is that chap putting a black hood over his head and picking up an axe?
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As you say, Waddington relied on student accommodation in Lincoln, therefore it seems reasonable to assume that similar arrangements could apply with Finningley (ie- Doncaster or Sheffield). Naturally there are logistical issues, but in principle there's really no reason why Finningley couldn't be used as a show site. As ever, it's really down to will and motivation. One assumes that nobody has any interest in creating a civilian-run event even with RAF support. Likewise, Waddington's organisers seem to be interested only in the future of Waddington's show (if it has one).
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I can think of one reason that the former RAF Finningley couldn't be used as a show site, it's a civil airport with scheduled arrival and departure movements, passengers and all that entails. Don't think the owners, Peel Airports, will be too keen to have their operation messed about.
Mister B
I can think of one reason that the former RAF Finningley couldn't be used as a show site, it's a civil airport with scheduled arrival and departure movements, passengers and all that entails. Don't think the owners, Peel Airports, will be too keen to have their operation messed about.
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Indeed, plus Teesside, Swansea, etc. Finningley's scheduled flights would probably amount to no more than two or three during a show day so it's a minor issue. The major issue is convincing anyone to do it!
Sticking my neck out...
Brize Norton south site, with entry via Britannia gate and Burford Road crash gate, and a park and ride from the sports field.
Brize Norton south site, with entry via Britannia gate and Burford Road crash gate, and a park and ride from the sports field.
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No point - Fairford is already used for RIAT. Last thing the UK needs is another show in the south. Elvington's a good site although aircraft parking space is a bit dodgy (there's only the main apron), and road access is pretty poor. It's probably a little too far north too.