Missing yacht
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I honestly can't believe that so much money is being wasted on this search. Flying a Herc into someone else's search area to join their search whilst nobody with any realistic knowledge expects to find survivors?
Madness.
This is political weakness in the face of public opinion.
Sailors know the risks.
If NICE were in charge of rescue cost benefit analysis as well as medical treatment cost benefit analysis you would be able to hear them laughing in disbelief.
Madness.
This is political weakness in the face of public opinion.
Sailors know the risks.
If NICE were in charge of rescue cost benefit analysis as well as medical treatment cost benefit analysis you would be able to hear them laughing in disbelief.
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Tourist, I get a sense that the UK Govt. is in a bit of a spot, and has to be seen to be doing something. And has to show a degree of responsibility towards these poor lost people.
Everyone on here knows this isn't the proper response- sending a RAF Hercules - I've just been looking at the pictures of one on the google images - doesn't look like an adequate aircraft at all for the task. Where are the bubble type observation windows, all the other things someone mentioned above?
And it doesn't look good at all really- what would heave been the UK response if God forbid, something like a large UK airliner had to put down mid Atlantic?
Much political capital could be made by many people over this event- by military and political leaders but they seem not to be rising to the bait, cant think why, other than some sort of mutual protection.
Public are gradually twigging how far gone everything is, I think. I hope they are anyway.
* Ask yourself, how would feel, what would you feel if you'd made it into the liferaft and given yourself a last fighting chance, but no one came for you? Or everyone just gave up.
Everyone on here knows this isn't the proper response- sending a RAF Hercules - I've just been looking at the pictures of one on the google images - doesn't look like an adequate aircraft at all for the task. Where are the bubble type observation windows, all the other things someone mentioned above?
And it doesn't look good at all really- what would heave been the UK response if God forbid, something like a large UK airliner had to put down mid Atlantic?
Much political capital could be made by many people over this event- by military and political leaders but they seem not to be rising to the bait, cant think why, other than some sort of mutual protection.
Public are gradually twigging how far gone everything is, I think. I hope they are anyway.
* Ask yourself, how would feel, what would you feel if you'd made it into the liferaft and given yourself a last fighting chance, but no one came for you? Or everyone just gave up.
I find it a bit strange to see the RAF/Brit government being given the Mickey over this. As noted early on, the SAR area is the one the US usually has coverage of, and the Canadians pitched in to help. It seems that the vessel itself was found, but what could not be done was a hands on exam of the vessel to confirm four sailors trapped within/underneath, or not. From reports in the public domain, at least two emergency beacons went off for a period of time. The crew knew they were in a fix, and at least two of them turned the beacons on. Even with the beacons off, and in what looks to have been dismal weather, the search continued after the beacons ran out of juice. It was then called off. (As much has been written on that decision, will not comment further).
What is it that a Nimrod could have done that wasn't already by the folks involved? Nimrods (and Hercs) on't hover, so they could not have deployed a team of swimmers/salvage hands to take a look at the vessel and determine one possible fate of the crew. What a Nimrod could do, I suppose, is keep looking for a raft, or other evidence of something, in the open ocean. Hadn't that capability already been covered by the nation who owns that area anyway?
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Lone, Hangar.
I looked up Tony Bullimore yesterday and came across a very interesting video / audio of his situation and how he felt. Very interesting and worth a look / listen.
I looked up Tony Bullimore yesterday and came across a very interesting video / audio of his situation and how he felt. Very interesting and worth a look / listen.
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What is it that a Nimrod could have done that wasn't already by the folks involved?
I try not to be too pessimistic but after all of this time I'm not confident that any survivors will be found alive. Let's hope I'm wrong.
It also had air to air refuelling so would have been able to extend it's time on task beyond the 3-4 hours achievable by the C-130 or the CP-140 Aurora. As everyone knows, the first hours of any SAR mission are the most critical.
I got a chance to ride once in Nimrod, early 80's. My seat was next to one of those bubble windows. It does indeed give a good view.
I see that the US Coastguard use a version of the C130. As these are coastguard aircraft are they better equipped for this work than the Herc we have sent? This is just a straight, unloaded question, as I have no knowledge of these types of ops
The Government is not "in a spot" over this. It has the expert opinion of the USCG, backed by the UK Coastguard, that all practical efforts have been made.
I can find no excuse other than electioneering.
Let's face it, the average parent/spouse is going to want every penny possible spending on this; who wouldn't? But it's the Government's job to think of all the people who will need rescuing next year.
Every penny spent on this from now on is money that won't get spent on the next rescue. Will the RAF's budget get increased next year to pay for this Herc? You know the answer to that. The only difference is that the cuts will come in places where people will subsequently die in less media-obvious places.
Or are people suggesting that these two coastguards are incompetent?
I can find no excuse other than electioneering.
Let's face it, the average parent/spouse is going to want every penny possible spending on this; who wouldn't? But it's the Government's job to think of all the people who will need rescuing next year.
Every penny spent on this from now on is money that won't get spent on the next rescue. Will the RAF's budget get increased next year to pay for this Herc? You know the answer to that. The only difference is that the cuts will come in places where people will subsequently die in less media-obvious places.
Or are people suggesting that these two coastguards are incompetent?
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and has to be seen to be doing something
TTN, the C-130J's that the USCG got are configured for their mission, which includes maritime surveillance. It looks like they got a mission equipment upgrade to fit that mission requirement after initial purchase.
The USCG has six HC-130Js in service ... initially operated in a logistic support role until they received significant modifications, including
- installations of a large window on each side of the fuselage to allow crew members to visually scan the sea surface,
- the addition of an inverse synthetic aperture sea search radar,
- flare tubes,
- a forward-looking infrared/electro-optical sensor,
- a gaseous oxygen system for the crew and an enhanced communications suite.
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TankerTrashNav
As these are coastguard aircraft are they better equipped for this work than the Herc we have sent?
However, I'm not sure just how useful will be a good radar in such a search & the IR isn't going to do much either. The main sensor is the Mk 1 eyeball I'm afraid.
Oops, Lonewolf beat me to it!!
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Without going into the rights or wrongs of continuing the search (I come down in favour of continuing. BTW) a few thoughts have struck me with regard to our capability holiday, not now known as a gap, more like the Grand Canyon.
Although never procured as an SAR platform, a little forethought could have reaped major benefits. The J has no external tanks or fittings for internal (Fuselage) tanks, this must severely limit the time on task.
"No problem!" I hear you cry "The J is Air to Air Refuelable". Unfortunately this is only a good call if we actually had a serviceable tanker aircraft with a working, cleared centre line hose
Maybe a suitable a/c could be found at Brunty or Kemble.
I don't know how many observers were dispatched with the J but I would assume they will be sitting in the para door seats with the doors open. This is VERY tiring and 30 minute stints will be the max endurable.
Has the J been equipped with ASRA or Sub Smash, pretty bloody pointless if it hasn't. Have any crew been trained in the use of the above?
All in all a total FUBAR from start to finish and I refer back to post #1 in this thread.
I speak as having completed a 15 hour long range SAR in the SA in a K.
I can only hope the the crew of the yacht survive, despite these efforts and that the J crew do not come back overly disheartened.
BTW What would we have done if the incident occurred JUST inside our SAR area of responsibility and the onus had been on us?
Although never procured as an SAR platform, a little forethought could have reaped major benefits. The J has no external tanks or fittings for internal (Fuselage) tanks, this must severely limit the time on task.
"No problem!" I hear you cry "The J is Air to Air Refuelable". Unfortunately this is only a good call if we actually had a serviceable tanker aircraft with a working, cleared centre line hose
Maybe a suitable a/c could be found at Brunty or Kemble.I don't know how many observers were dispatched with the J but I would assume they will be sitting in the para door seats with the doors open. This is VERY tiring and 30 minute stints will be the max endurable.
Has the J been equipped with ASRA or Sub Smash, pretty bloody pointless if it hasn't. Have any crew been trained in the use of the above?
All in all a total FUBAR from start to finish and I refer back to post #1 in this thread.
I speak as having completed a 15 hour long range SAR in the SA in a K.
I can only hope the the crew of the yacht survive, despite these efforts and that the J crew do not come back overly disheartened.
BTW What would we have done if the incident occurred JUST inside our SAR area of responsibility and the onus had been on us?
Last edited by Top Bunk Tester; 21st May 2014 at 20:20.
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Whenever they say we are sending an aircraft to do this and do that, to look for sailors or schoolies etc, why do I keep thinking of the scene from the longest day where the two Germans are ordered to attack the invasion and he says that was the Luftwaffe's finest hour... We seem to be heading that way ourselves
Do you think anyone in Westminster is feeling guilty about chucking our MPA capability away
Do you think anyone in Westminster is feeling guilty about chucking our MPA capability away
