NEW NEM IBNs
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gr4techie
If you are an AFPS 75 or AFPS 05 member who gets transferred to AFPS 15, your benefits built up to 1 April 15 will be protected. I gave someone a steer on one of the other military sites this morning which might clarify things for you.
The chap in question was on AFPS 75 and would be leaving at the 22 yr point in Dec 15. He would get:
An immediate pension of 96% of the AFPS 75 22 yr rate for his rank and a tax free lump sum of three times that amount
PLUS
A preserved AFPS 15 pension worth 1/47th of his pensionable pay for the balance of his service. This is payable at his State Pension Age.
An EDP lump sum worth 2.25 times the preserved pension
An EDP income stream worth at least 34% of the preserved pension
The point others were making was about the 18 yr old who joins for a 20 yr period. He would be too young to get an EDP as he would only be 38 when he left. He would leave with a preserved pension payable at State Pension Age
If you are an AFPS 75 or AFPS 05 member who gets transferred to AFPS 15, your benefits built up to 1 April 15 will be protected. I gave someone a steer on one of the other military sites this morning which might clarify things for you.
The chap in question was on AFPS 75 and would be leaving at the 22 yr point in Dec 15. He would get:
An immediate pension of 96% of the AFPS 75 22 yr rate for his rank and a tax free lump sum of three times that amount
PLUS
A preserved AFPS 15 pension worth 1/47th of his pensionable pay for the balance of his service. This is payable at his State Pension Age.
An EDP lump sum worth 2.25 times the preserved pension
An EDP income stream worth at least 34% of the preserved pension
The point others were making was about the 18 yr old who joins for a 20 yr period. He would be too young to get an EDP as he would only be 38 when he left. He would leave with a preserved pension payable at State Pension Age
Whenurhappy
I'm in the process of applying for an FTRS post pre-age 55 so I will be able to transfer to AFPS15 (as it is automatic) and will get to serve to 60 (or maybe even 65!!).
So if I get the job (and this works well for AFPS75 guys who are willing to drop 1-2 ranks) then "I'm alright Jack!". I meant that tongue in cheek, but it may give you another option to consider?
The B Word
I'm in the process of applying for an FTRS post pre-age 55 so I will be able to transfer to AFPS15 (as it is automatic) and will get to serve to 60 (or maybe even 65!!).
So if I get the job (and this works well for AFPS75 guys who are willing to drop 1-2 ranks) then "I'm alright Jack!". I meant that tongue in cheek, but it may give you another option to consider?
The B Word
I'm in (long) training for my next appointment with an extension of service to 57; there is, all things being equal, a likelihood of being offered service to 60 at the same rank. I wrote to SPVA some time back when this was offered and, after many delays and making a Service Complaint, they eventually confirmed that my AFPS 75 remained unchanged (but also qualified it that they didn't know the impact of NEM - there's a thread running in parallel to this). Having said that I joined the RAF at 28 so I won't run too foul of the maximum years for pension accumulation.
I need to seek professional advice as soon as I am back in work; not having regular access to DII or JPA compounds the problem.
I need to seek professional advice as soon as I am back in work; not having regular access to DII or JPA compounds the problem.
If you were aged 45 or over on 1 Apr 12 and in the 'Protected Cohort' who will not transfer to AFPS 15, then the IBN says that you will be allowed to serve on the new commissions/engagements, even if they take you past age 55. However you will not be able to transfer to AFPS 15 because the 'Protected Cohort' was defined as those personnel within 10 years of their Normal Pension Age (age 55) on 1 Apr 12. As a member of AFPS 75/AFPS 05, the Normal Pension Age of 55 will not change, even if the Service allowed you to serve past the Normal Retirement Date. Therefore, you remain within the 'Protected Cohort' on AFPS75/AFPS05. There is no scope to change this as the transitional protections offered to members of existing schemes have been set by HM Treasury and apply across the Public Sector.
1. For those in the 'protected cohort', will there be a pay increase once the pension can no longer be contributed to? - by the same amount, pay is currently abated?
2. More a question for our pension specialists but isn't the govt trying to ensure that all companies should enable employees to contribute to a pension? How would that 5 year gap be covered between pension stopping at 55 but working until the age of 60?
Any guesses?
If you're on AFPS75 then the maximum pension you can earn is 37 years -
I'm on AFPS75 and just tried the pension calculator on the basis of working until 60. The maximum level of pension it came up with was to a limit of 34 years. Where did you get the 37 number from?
Also noted the 2nd IBN which gives 28 days for individuals to decide if they wish to extend their career, for those in the first batch. If 28 days is the norm for everyone else to decide whether to extend, that is one hell of a short timescale to make a decision when there are still so many unknowns with items like pensions!
Last edited by Party Animal; 19th May 2014 at 14:51. Reason: typo
Party,
Under AFPS 75, 37 years is for airmen (whose pension accumulates from age 18) whereas for officers it is 34 years (as the pension only starts accumulating from age 21).
Interesting second order effects. Let's take a high flying aircrew gp capt, say stn cdr at 45 and gets offered promotion. Probably got a couple of kids at boarding school as he's followed the flag to be loyal. Now he's got a choice, become a one star with a smallish increase in pay but he could be kicked out after 2 years and CEA will disappear along with the salary; or he could sit on his backside, take it easy and have guaranteed employment to 60. Wonder how many will choose the latter...
Under AFPS 75, 37 years is for airmen (whose pension accumulates from age 18) whereas for officers it is 34 years (as the pension only starts accumulating from age 21).
Interesting second order effects. Let's take a high flying aircrew gp capt, say stn cdr at 45 and gets offered promotion. Probably got a couple of kids at boarding school as he's followed the flag to be loyal. Now he's got a choice, become a one star with a smallish increase in pay but he could be kicked out after 2 years and CEA will disappear along with the salary; or he could sit on his backside, take it easy and have guaranteed employment to 60. Wonder how many will choose the latter...
Thread Starter
REL
that's a good point but the NEM is also to include manning levers whereby if they decide you are resting on your laurels or coasting they will be able to make you redundant without the need for full scale redundancy boards of old...
that's a good point but the NEM is also to include manning levers whereby if they decide you are resting on your laurels or coasting they will be able to make you redundant without the need for full scale redundancy boards of old...
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NEM and PAS
Well, now that they plan to let PAS personnel serve to 60, I do hope that the PAS pay spine will have an additional 5 increments added to the top of the scale! After all, the original was designed when we only had to work to 55......surely it should be adjusted to fit in with the new employment terms?
Stop laughing........I mean it! Stop laughing!
We all already know the answer..........
Stop laughing........I mean it! Stop laughing!
We all already know the answer..........
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Party, what i understand with this curent offer is that 28 days is designed to get as many acceptances processed as possible, quickly, in order to inform Next years ITTs and help to bridge the strength liability gap as we go into SDSR next year. Besides the considerations for this cadre are minimal hence the short turn around time.
And the concern from the thrusting aircrew community is already being talked about in cafe1!!
And the concern from the thrusting aircrew community is already being talked about in cafe1!!
I know it's not the PPRuNe way, but there must be some positives to come out of this.
People on PAS were complaining, people not yet on PAS were rejecting it, because of the fear that the gap between 55 and 60 would leave them stuffed with no pension.
Now, we've had confirmation that all PAS Flt Lts will be offered an extension to 60, ensuring that they can retire on a full, immediate pension.
The complaints now start that it's another 5 years on the top pay scale. JTO, if you're looking at 17 years on level 35, that means that prior to this you were still looking at 12 years! The top PAS levels seem entirely fair compensation for the job. I'm annoyed you need to be promoted to get the final 5, but overall it seems like a fair pay scale. Now it interfaces with the pension, and if you're in the mid-to-late 30s bracket and on or about to start on PAS, you're probably one of the very few who can benefit from AFPS15 (career average when your salary profile runs from level 20 to level 35 PAS).
We're never going to get a 100% pay rise and the job will always have its issues. But in terms of the things that have frightened people recently, surely this is good news? Service until the new pension age?
I'm not too worried about the "manning levers;" the discussion around them seems to centre on being able to let large tranches of people go when types are removed from service, like Harrier/Nimrod/etc in 2010. Not to look at individuals and kick them out with nothing.
People on PAS were complaining, people not yet on PAS were rejecting it, because of the fear that the gap between 55 and 60 would leave them stuffed with no pension.
Now, we've had confirmation that all PAS Flt Lts will be offered an extension to 60, ensuring that they can retire on a full, immediate pension.
The complaints now start that it's another 5 years on the top pay scale. JTO, if you're looking at 17 years on level 35, that means that prior to this you were still looking at 12 years! The top PAS levels seem entirely fair compensation for the job. I'm annoyed you need to be promoted to get the final 5, but overall it seems like a fair pay scale. Now it interfaces with the pension, and if you're in the mid-to-late 30s bracket and on or about to start on PAS, you're probably one of the very few who can benefit from AFPS15 (career average when your salary profile runs from level 20 to level 35 PAS).
We're never going to get a 100% pay rise and the job will always have its issues. But in terms of the things that have frightened people recently, surely this is good news? Service until the new pension age?
I'm not too worried about the "manning levers;" the discussion around them seems to centre on being able to let large tranches of people go when types are removed from service, like Harrier/Nimrod/etc in 2010. Not to look at individuals and kick them out with nothing.
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As for PAS pay increments the extension to 60 would mean I would serve for around 17 years stuck at the top level.
We're never going to get a 100% pay rise and the job will always have its issues. But in terms of the things that have frightened people recently, surely this is good news? Service until the new pension age?
I'm not too worried about the "manning levers;" the discussion around them seems to centre on being able to let large tranches of people go when types are removed from service, like Harrier/Nimrod/etc in 2010. Not to look at individuals and kick them out with nothing.
Last edited by VinRouge; 21st May 2014 at 09:41.
Here is another 'gotcha'...
If you were aged 45 or over on 1 Apr 12 and in the 'Protected Cohort' who will not transfer to AFPS 15, then the IBN says that you will be allowed to serve on the new commissions/engagements, even if they take you past age 55. However you will not be able to transfer to AFPS 15 because the 'Protected Cohort' was defined as those personnel within 10 years of their Normal Pension Age (age 55) on 1 Apr 12. As a member of AFPS 75/AFPS 05, the Normal Pension Age of 55 will not change, even if the Service allowed you to serve past the Normal Retirement Date. Therefore, you remain within the 'Protected Cohort' on AFPS75/AFPS05. There is no scope to change this as the transitional protections offered to members of existing schemes have been set by HM Treasury and apply across the Public Sector.
If you were aged 45 or over on 1 Apr 12 and in the 'Protected Cohort' who will not transfer to AFPS 15, then the IBN says that you will be allowed to serve on the new commissions/engagements, even if they take you past age 55. However you will not be able to transfer to AFPS 15 because the 'Protected Cohort' was defined as those personnel within 10 years of their Normal Pension Age (age 55) on 1 Apr 12. As a member of AFPS 75/AFPS 05, the Normal Pension Age of 55 will not change, even if the Service allowed you to serve past the Normal Retirement Date. Therefore, you remain within the 'Protected Cohort' on AFPS75/AFPS05. There is no scope to change this as the transitional protections offered to members of existing schemes have been set by HM Treasury and apply across the Public Sector.
Could someone please tell me..Has the 28 days acceptance to extend to 60 started? If not, when will it start?
I'm in the Protected Cohort - is the idea that I would still receive my pension at 55 with no further pension accrual? What happens to my basic (PA) pay from age 55 to 60 - is it abated as the pension will have kicked in?
Thanks
How does someone benefit from a career average pension based on level 20 through to 35 (AFPS15) versus a pension based on just level 35 (AFPS75)? I would have thought that someone on PAS would still be worse off on AFPS15? What am I missing??
Alfred,
£80k pa sounds great, except that it's not the market rate for an experienced pilot. I have a friend earning twice that for one of the major airlines. Of the twenty or so JPs with whom I served on my first squadron, I was the only one to serve past 50... all the others buggered off to the airlines; more money, less work! Me? I just loved my job too much!
£80k pa sounds great, except that it's not the market rate for an experienced pilot. I have a friend earning twice that for one of the major airlines. Of the twenty or so JPs with whom I served on my first squadron, I was the only one to serve past 50... all the others buggered off to the airlines; more money, less work! Me? I just loved my job too much!
Viz,
The offer to extend to 60 is many months away, so don't worry just yet.
You will not receive your pension at 55 if you stay in till 60. You will be paid as normal but your pension growth will be limited to 34 years for officers if you are on AFPS 75. The only difference is that when you do leave at 60, your pension and gratuity will be based on the pay you are earning at 60 and not on what you were earning at 55.
Has the 28 days acceptance to extend to 60 started? If not, when will it start?
I'm in the Protected Cohort - is the idea that I would still receive my pension at 55 with no further pension accrual? What happens to my basic (PA) pay from age 55 to 60 - is it abated as the pension will have kicked in?
I'm in the Protected Cohort - is the idea that I would still receive my pension at 55 with no further pension accrual? What happens to my basic (PA) pay from age 55 to 60 - is it abated as the pension will have kicked in?
You will not receive your pension at 55 if you stay in till 60. You will be paid as normal but your pension growth will be limited to 34 years for officers if you are on AFPS 75. The only difference is that when you do leave at 60, your pension and gratuity will be based on the pay you are earning at 60 and not on what you were earning at 55.