NEW NEM IBNs
NEW NEM IBNs
Join Date: Mar 2007
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NEW NEM IBNs
Thanks for the heads up downsizer. Would you be willing to give us the gist of them? Particularly, extensions for SNCOs already signed on to 22 years? I'm almost sad enough to wonder into work and look but away from camp today.
Thread Starter
There is stuff about both those issues in them but I haven't got the IBNs to hand... They're both on airspace if you have an account. If anyone hasn't added it before I have them to hand again I'll flesh it out more then...
Thread Starter
Rough gist
Key Features for All Groups
Key features of the proposed structure for officers and ORs are as follows:
a.The introduction of a new 12-year initial Commission/engagement for all officers, Direct Entry SNCOs and ORs, except officers in the Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Officer (Specialist) Branches, who will retain a 6-year Short Service Commission. The new 12-year Commission/engagement reflects the feedback from Consultation and will bring the following benefits:
(1)Better alignment to the career structure for the technical trades.
(2)A consistent approach across rank groups and specializations.
(3)Increased job security for individuals and the opportunity for personnel completing their initial Commission or engagement to qualify for the Resettlement Grant.
(4)The opportunity for the majority of junior RAF personnel to draw a FHTB home ownership loan of 50% of salary, after completing Phase 2 training and a minimum of 2 years’ service from enlistment.
b.The replacement of the current 22-year engagement for ORs, and the 16/38 and 18/40 PCs for officers, with a new 20/40 Commission/engagement. This will align with the AFPS 15 EDP qualification point, and will provide a consistent approach for all rank groups and specializations. However, transitional arrangements will be required to allow some ORs who have remained on AFPS 75 to qualify for their Immediate Pension, which is payable after 22 years’ reckonable service from age 18.
c.All length of service-based Commissions and engagements will be subject to an upper age limit of 60.
d.Although re-engagement will, in the main, normally be linked to promotion, greater freedom will be allowed for selected personnel to be re-engaged independently of promotion. Numbers will be determined by Service need.
Key Features for Ground Trades Personnel
In addition to the Key Features for all Groups, the proposed structure for ground trades personnel are as follows:
a.The introduction of a LOS 32 engagement for Chf Techs. This recognizes the extra time taken, on average, to reach FS in the technical trades and the need to maintain sustainable trade structures.
b.The introduction of a LOS 35 engagement for FSs and WOs and selected lower ranks.
c.The introduction of opportunities for selected personnel to serve to age 60.
Key Features for Direct Entry SNCOs
In addition to the Key Features for all Groups, the proposed structure for Direct Entry SNCOs are as follows:
a.The introduction of a LOS 30 engagement for FSs and selected Sgts.
b.The introduction of a LOS 35 engagement for WOs/MAcr and selected lower ranks.
c.The introduction of opportunities for selected personnel to serve to age 60.
Key Features for Ground Branch Officers
In addition to the Key Features for all Groups, the proposed structure for Ground Branch Officers are as follows:
a.The introduction of a LOS 30 Commission for Ground Branch officers at Sqn Ldr rank and for selected Flt Lts. This would replace the existing Commission to age 55.
b.The introduction of a LOS 35 Commission for Ground Branch officers of Wg Cdr and Gp Capt rank, and for selected lower ranks. This is a change from the proposals briefed during the Consultation Roadshows and would replace the existing Commission to age 55.
c.The introduction of opportunities for selected personnel to serve to age 60.
Key Features for Flying Branch Officers
Key features of the proposed structure for Flying Branch Officers are as follows:
a.All officers would join on a 12-year Initial Commission but would be automatically extended to the 20/40 point on successfully qualifying on their first operational aircraft type.
b.Officers from Sqn Ldr to Gp Capt, and Flt Lts assimilated onto the PAS, would be offered service to age 60. This reflects the particular long-term sustainability challenge faced by the Branch.
Key Features for Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Branch Officers
Key features of the proposed structure for Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Branch Officers are as follows:
a.A 6-year Short Service Commission would be retained for officers in the Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Officer (Specialist) Branch as discussed above.
b.A 12-year Initial Commission would be introduced for officers in the Medical Support Officer (Environmental Health Officer) Branch.
c.At Sqn Ldr Rank:
(1)Officers in the Legal Branch would be offered service to the 20/40 point, with service to LOS 30 and beyond by selection only.
(2)Terms for Chaplains and the Medical Support Officer Branch are subject to further work and will be published in autumn 2014.
Key Features for Air Rank Officers
Officers at AVM rank and above will continue to be engaged for the duration of their current assignment, with the opportunity to be re-engaged if offered a subsequent appointment or appointments. This approach would be extended to officers at Air Cdre rank.
Key features of the proposed structure for officers and ORs are as follows:
a.The introduction of a new 12-year initial Commission/engagement for all officers, Direct Entry SNCOs and ORs, except officers in the Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Officer (Specialist) Branches, who will retain a 6-year Short Service Commission. The new 12-year Commission/engagement reflects the feedback from Consultation and will bring the following benefits:
(1)Better alignment to the career structure for the technical trades.
(2)A consistent approach across rank groups and specializations.
(3)Increased job security for individuals and the opportunity for personnel completing their initial Commission or engagement to qualify for the Resettlement Grant.
(4)The opportunity for the majority of junior RAF personnel to draw a FHTB home ownership loan of 50% of salary, after completing Phase 2 training and a minimum of 2 years’ service from enlistment.
b.The replacement of the current 22-year engagement for ORs, and the 16/38 and 18/40 PCs for officers, with a new 20/40 Commission/engagement. This will align with the AFPS 15 EDP qualification point, and will provide a consistent approach for all rank groups and specializations. However, transitional arrangements will be required to allow some ORs who have remained on AFPS 75 to qualify for their Immediate Pension, which is payable after 22 years’ reckonable service from age 18.
c.All length of service-based Commissions and engagements will be subject to an upper age limit of 60.
d.Although re-engagement will, in the main, normally be linked to promotion, greater freedom will be allowed for selected personnel to be re-engaged independently of promotion. Numbers will be determined by Service need.
Key Features for Ground Trades Personnel
In addition to the Key Features for all Groups, the proposed structure for ground trades personnel are as follows:
a.The introduction of a LOS 32 engagement for Chf Techs. This recognizes the extra time taken, on average, to reach FS in the technical trades and the need to maintain sustainable trade structures.
b.The introduction of a LOS 35 engagement for FSs and WOs and selected lower ranks.
c.The introduction of opportunities for selected personnel to serve to age 60.
Key Features for Direct Entry SNCOs
In addition to the Key Features for all Groups, the proposed structure for Direct Entry SNCOs are as follows:
a.The introduction of a LOS 30 engagement for FSs and selected Sgts.
b.The introduction of a LOS 35 engagement for WOs/MAcr and selected lower ranks.
c.The introduction of opportunities for selected personnel to serve to age 60.
Key Features for Ground Branch Officers
In addition to the Key Features for all Groups, the proposed structure for Ground Branch Officers are as follows:
a.The introduction of a LOS 30 Commission for Ground Branch officers at Sqn Ldr rank and for selected Flt Lts. This would replace the existing Commission to age 55.
b.The introduction of a LOS 35 Commission for Ground Branch officers of Wg Cdr and Gp Capt rank, and for selected lower ranks. This is a change from the proposals briefed during the Consultation Roadshows and would replace the existing Commission to age 55.
c.The introduction of opportunities for selected personnel to serve to age 60.
Key Features for Flying Branch Officers
Key features of the proposed structure for Flying Branch Officers are as follows:
a.All officers would join on a 12-year Initial Commission but would be automatically extended to the 20/40 point on successfully qualifying on their first operational aircraft type.
b.Officers from Sqn Ldr to Gp Capt, and Flt Lts assimilated onto the PAS, would be offered service to age 60. This reflects the particular long-term sustainability challenge faced by the Branch.
Key Features for Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Branch Officers
Key features of the proposed structure for Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Branch Officers are as follows:
a.A 6-year Short Service Commission would be retained for officers in the Legal, Chaplains and Medical Support Officer (Specialist) Branch as discussed above.
b.A 12-year Initial Commission would be introduced for officers in the Medical Support Officer (Environmental Health Officer) Branch.
c.At Sqn Ldr Rank:
(1)Officers in the Legal Branch would be offered service to the 20/40 point, with service to LOS 30 and beyond by selection only.
(2)Terms for Chaplains and the Medical Support Officer Branch are subject to further work and will be published in autumn 2014.
Key Features for Air Rank Officers
Officers at AVM rank and above will continue to be engaged for the duration of their current assignment, with the opportunity to be re-engaged if offered a subsequent appointment or appointments. This approach would be extended to officers at Air Cdre rank.
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18 yr old ORs on AFPS 75
4Ever...Looks like they have thought have that one....
[QUOTE]b.The replacement of the current 22-year engagement for ORs, and the 16/38 and 18/40 PCs for officers, with a new 20/40 Commission/engagement. This will align with the AFPS 15 EDP qualification point, and will provide a consistent approach for all rank groups and specializations. However, transitional arrangements will be required to allow some ORs who have remained on AFPS 75 to qualify for their Immediate Pension, which is payable after 22 years’ reckonable service from age 18./QUOTE]
[QUOTE]b.The replacement of the current 22-year engagement for ORs, and the 16/38 and 18/40 PCs for officers, with a new 20/40 Commission/engagement. This will align with the AFPS 15 EDP qualification point, and will provide a consistent approach for all rank groups and specializations. However, transitional arrangements will be required to allow some ORs who have remained on AFPS 75 to qualify for their Immediate Pension, which is payable after 22 years’ reckonable service from age 18./QUOTE]
No not ORs, also this will effect ALL future under 20 year olds commissioned or not. I suppose it is parity of treatment everyone gets screwed!
Not great for the ground branches. LOS35 all the way to gp capt, so a joiner at 18 would be out 7 years shy of a pension and a 22 year old graduate would miss full pension by 3 years. Make air cdre and employment is by assignment so no guarantees there either.
The latest pension draft has age 55 as the earliest you can draw a full pension, albeit actuarially reduced to reflect how short you are of the magic 60. As such, joining before the age of 20 appears to be a really bad move.
Any news of transitional arrangements for those currently in the flying branch and currently capped at age 55 - ie definitive offers of extension to 60?
The latest pension draft has age 55 as the earliest you can draw a full pension, albeit actuarially reduced to reflect how short you are of the magic 60. As such, joining before the age of 20 appears to be a really bad move.
Any news of transitional arrangements for those currently in the flying branch and currently capped at age 55 - ie definitive offers of extension to 60?
As I understand it you serve to the later of 20 years or age 40. So your 18 year old would serve to age 40 having accrued 22 years of service at the EDP point. So in this regard early joiners are not disadvantaged, but it looks like they get screwed later on.
JTO, no you have to meet both requirements at the end of your service, be at least 40 and have served at least 20years. If short on either you only receive £10k resettlement grant and nothing else till 65!
Edited to add: I defer if the new engagement has changed to how you describe it JTO, it certainly was as I described for the old schemes. I may well be confusing EDP requirements and the new engagement structure. If it is as you describe then with pensionable service starting from day 1 whatever your age it makes sense to join up as young as possible to get 3 or 4 years more pension/seniority on the 20 year olds!
Edited to add: I defer if the new engagement has changed to how you describe it JTO, it certainly was as I described for the old schemes. I may well be confusing EDP requirements and the new engagement structure. If it is as you describe then with pensionable service starting from day 1 whatever your age it makes sense to join up as young as possible to get 3 or 4 years more pension/seniority on the 20 year olds!
Here is another 'gotcha'...
If you were aged 45 or over on 1 Apr 12 and in the 'Protected Cohort' who will not transfer to AFPS 15, then the IBN says that you will be allowed to serve on the new commissions/engagements, even if they take you past age 55. However you will not be able to transfer to AFPS 15 because the 'Protected Cohort' was defined as those personnel within 10 years of their Normal Pension Age (age 55) on 1 Apr 12. As a member of AFPS 75/AFPS 05, the Normal Pension Age of 55 will not change, even if the Service allowed you to serve past the Normal Retirement Date. Therefore, you remain within the 'Protected Cohort' on AFPS75/AFPS05. There is no scope to change this as the transitional protections offered to members of existing schemes have been set by HM Treasury and apply across the Public Sector.
Rubbish!
The B Word
If you were aged 45 or over on 1 Apr 12 and in the 'Protected Cohort' who will not transfer to AFPS 15, then the IBN says that you will be allowed to serve on the new commissions/engagements, even if they take you past age 55. However you will not be able to transfer to AFPS 15 because the 'Protected Cohort' was defined as those personnel within 10 years of their Normal Pension Age (age 55) on 1 Apr 12. As a member of AFPS 75/AFPS 05, the Normal Pension Age of 55 will not change, even if the Service allowed you to serve past the Normal Retirement Date. Therefore, you remain within the 'Protected Cohort' on AFPS75/AFPS05. There is no scope to change this as the transitional protections offered to members of existing schemes have been set by HM Treasury and apply across the Public Sector.
Rubbish!
The B Word
Whenurhappy
If you're on AFPS75 then the maximum pension you can earn is 37 years - so if you joined at 21 then you would not increase your pension for your last 2 years of service. If I PVR then I lose pension for the rest of my life, so I'll just have to work for no extra pension over 2 years.
It looks like 2nd and 3rd order effects of this is hidden in the headlines.
Why do I get the impression that NEM is a cost saving exercise despite the protestation that it isn't!
The B Word
If you're on AFPS75 then the maximum pension you can earn is 37 years - so if you joined at 21 then you would not increase your pension for your last 2 years of service. If I PVR then I lose pension for the rest of my life, so I'll just have to work for no extra pension over 2 years.
It looks like 2nd and 3rd order effects of this is hidden in the headlines.
Why do I get the impression that NEM is a cost saving exercise despite the protestation that it isn't!
The B Word
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So no immediate EDP or pension if you join up aged under 20 and serve LOS 20/40.
JTO, no you have to meet both requirements at the end of your service, be at least 40 and have served at least 20years. If short on either you only receive £10k resettlement grant and nothing else till 65!
Will OR's currently on AFPS75 still serve 22 years and will then receive the immediate pension ( worth the fraction x/22nd's of how many years you did under afps75) ?
I joined age 18 and 11 months. I'd meet the "at least 40" criteria with 22 years service but not 20.
If people are going to loose their immediate pension due to the goal posts moving, I predict a lot of PVR's, there's no longer the incentive for experienced guys to stay.
GR4, my bad, IF the new engagement is to 20 years or age 40 which ever is the latter then all is well as it would tie in exactly with the EDP 20/40 requirements and no one loses.
My concern is based on the current ORs under 18 who couldn't meet the EDP 18/40 goalposts. IF everyone is swept up into the new 20/40 and it is to 20 years service or age 40 whichever is the latter then that would seem to give them back their opportunity to leave with an EDP.
You seem bullet proof time GR4 as you will not be forced to serve less than you are already signed up for so you will see out your 22 at the very least.
My concern is based on the current ORs under 18 who couldn't meet the EDP 18/40 goalposts. IF everyone is swept up into the new 20/40 and it is to 20 years service or age 40 whichever is the latter then that would seem to give them back their opportunity to leave with an EDP.
You seem bullet proof time GR4 as you will not be forced to serve less than you are already signed up for so you will see out your 22 at the very least.
Right I have read the IBNs and must say I'm confused by the following bit:
Align the RAF’s career structure with two key features of AFPS 15:
(1) The revised Early Departure Payment (EDP) qualification point, reached after 20 years’ service or on reaching age 40, whichever is the later (the 20/40 point).
(2) The revised Normal Pension Age of 60.
My understanding and reading of AFPS15 rules were that it is NOT whichever is later, you have to meet both requirements at point of departue.
This is unconsequential if the new LOS 20/40 goes to "whichever is the later" as it will cover the requirement. But with such an obvious mistake in the text what else isn't quite right? Have they changed the EDP requirement of AFPS 15 to the new whichever is later? I thought that the whole must be aged 40 thing came from the Tax people saying you couldn't have pension related benefits if you were under 40 (the pension calculator certainly works on meeting both requirements).
I could be wrong or making a mountain out of a mole hill but this possible mis-interpretation of the AFPS15 rules in such an important IBN is seriously misleading.
Align the RAF’s career structure with two key features of AFPS 15:
(1) The revised Early Departure Payment (EDP) qualification point, reached after 20 years’ service or on reaching age 40, whichever is the later (the 20/40 point).
(2) The revised Normal Pension Age of 60.
My understanding and reading of AFPS15 rules were that it is NOT whichever is later, you have to meet both requirements at point of departue.
This is unconsequential if the new LOS 20/40 goes to "whichever is the later" as it will cover the requirement. But with such an obvious mistake in the text what else isn't quite right? Have they changed the EDP requirement of AFPS 15 to the new whichever is later? I thought that the whole must be aged 40 thing came from the Tax people saying you couldn't have pension related benefits if you were under 40 (the pension calculator certainly works on meeting both requirements).
I could be wrong or making a mountain out of a mole hill but this possible mis-interpretation of the AFPS15 rules in such an important IBN is seriously misleading.