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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 6th Oct 2015, 20:38
  #601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
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"Air test them at Cambridge and then aerotow to Syerston."
Always happy to help out 7700 - am current on either end of the rope and on the insurance for four different tugs. Am I correct in assuming that the two completed Vikings haven't moved yet then?
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 20:43
  #602 (permalink)  
 
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Lets start a petition


D... U..... for OC 2FTS, as Hon Gp Capt like herself..........hat, coat
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 20:52
  #603 (permalink)  
 
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Ha ha ha - its a generous offer Wander but I couldn't handle the bulldust (or the inertia!) I quite like getting things done, then getting on with the next thing that needs doing. Ten years of producing a monthly magazine will do that to you!
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 21:04
  #604 (permalink)  
 
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T'was in jest, and for just those reasons - something needs a stick of dynamite inserting - I am dismayed for the last 18 months but more so for the future, not least because I know what I got out of the Air Cadets. Tried to put a bit back too, as a VR(T) officer for a while, an ACLO (twice) and as an OC Admin Wg
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 21:28
  #605 (permalink)  
 
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I know Wander - and I'm as upset about the recent past and as worried about the immediate future as you. The ATC was great for me too, and I think my two young sons would probably join - but only if they can fly.
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 22:23
  #606 (permalink)  
 
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Dave,
It was 'almost' a tongue in cheek suggestion but in all seriousness, if the will and need to have them back at Syerston was there they could've been aerotowed - I know you have the means at your disposal, there is/was a Robin at Syerston used by CGS for aerotowing.

And think of the PR - 'RAF undertakes longest glider tow since June 44'.

If it had been a civvy club and they needed a glider back (because two seaters earn money for clubs) it would've been aerotowed if necessary and of course last week presented a great weather window to do it.


7700

Last edited by squawking 7700; 6th Oct 2015 at 22:54. Reason: Addition
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 07:19
  #607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Delivering the task is not the issue

I think you (we) are all missing the point, DU. Not flying cadets is a good thing in the modern safety environment. 'As Low As Possible' sets an even higher standard than 'As Low As Reasonably Practicable', since No fly = No risk. As for a civi flying a military aircraft, heaven forbid! It was bad enough letting RAF-pilot-wanabee Walter Mitties fly them. Cdt AC and OC 2 FTS have achieved a 100% safety record.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 09:54
  #608 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly 7700 - if they wanted them back they could have aerotowed them (in fact, last week any decent soaring pilot would've had a fair chance at soaring them back, I flew on several days between Saltby and Wittering and it was really good at times, with plenty of lift about). I think ACW VGL has hit the nail on the thumb - someone has decided that ATC sailplanes will have a 100% safety record, and we all know that can only be achieved by not flying ATC sailplanes.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 10:16
  #609 (permalink)  
 
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I remember doing a number of retrieves from our VGS to CGS and back to ensure we had a decent servicable fleet, sometimes 2 in a day. I daren't count the amount of time I spent on the A1 with a trailer wagging happily behind me.

Reason I put this is there was always the will to do something, to help the old CGMF keep the fleet flying during peak season. This will appears to have all but gone, however, I would love to be proved wrong.

OB
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 10:43
  #610 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately, the pendulum of risk v task has not found its point of equilibrium yet, particularly following the loss of cadets in the two Tutor mid-airs. In an operationally busy and cash strapped service I can understand the low priority of the ACW fleet. I am frustrated for the youngsters who are missing out but know that the staff of at least one VGS are eager to rebuild, refresh and move on, once the opportunity presents itself.
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Old 7th Oct 2015, 18:41
  #611 (permalink)  
 
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Where has the "Air" in Air Cadets gone?

There appears to be no will to do anything associated with risk in the ACO at present.

I fear that we may have gone from when we were making things happen (1970 - 2000), through watching things happen (2000 - 2010) to wondering what's happened (2010 - 2015) in the ACO.

There is another thread on "Gliding Paused" running on Air Cadet Central and it seems that any attempt by the squadrons to get Air Cadets off the ground has been thwarted at every turn.

The silence from HQAC and No 2 FTS has been deafening!!
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Old 8th Oct 2015, 17:33
  #612 (permalink)  
 
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Any chance of getting a sympathetic MP to ask a PQ?
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Old 8th Oct 2015, 22:06
  #613 (permalink)  
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Apparently boss dudes going to cranwell next weekend and then big briefings all round place after that. Big announcement about closing a load of the schools for good apparently. Really sad, dunno what's going to be left, probably a few schools and Syston.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 07:14
  #614 (permalink)  
 
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That is also the rumour I'm hearing. I'm also hearing that some new aircraft might be bought. Just like SDSR, though, lots of rumours as all the options are staffed...good ones and bad ones!

We'll have to see what the next 4 weeks brings.

LJ
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 07:58
  #615 (permalink)  
 
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Personally, if the axe has to fall I would like to see the AEFs go. As a young CGB I spent endless weekends chasing winch launched gliders around a soggy, cold RAF Catterick. Cadets had plenty of opportunity to fly whilst also engaging in proper, aviation related, team building activity. Right now, the organisation is more aligned to the Army Cadets/Scouts than aviation. Indeed, it is depressing to get a message from WHQ asking if you have any aviation minded cadets who may want to attend an undersubscribed aviation training day; there's only so many times you can enthusiastically marshall a landrover.

Perhaps the BGA is the solution? They quite happily and safely service Air League scholarships and I'm sure they would be willing to embrace the ACO as a customer/partner.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 08:24
  #616 (permalink)  
 
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It's easy to say the BGA might be the solution, but I suspect there is a lot of devil in the details of that one in many areas. Our local ATC approached my club and was wanting only full cat instructors to fly cadets...
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 09:24
  #617 (permalink)  
 
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The cadets have virtually no opportunity to fly and are leaving in droves. My son has had one 20 min slot in a Tudor in his 2 years with the cadets.

I just can't understand why the organisation isn't making up for it, and therefore re-engaging the cadets, by offering more sqn visits and jollies.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 09:52
  #618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Oh come on chaps, this is the Royal Air Force! They cannot close some of the gliding schools as they keep telling us that the Vikings and Vigilants will be back soon, they have 26 new Skylaunch winches just waiting to be started up. All of those Squadron Leaders must have squadrons to run, or what else would they do at weekends?

I can imagine Skylaunch just taking back those unused winches and giving the MOD their money back, not! What would Skylaunch do with 26 diesel engined winches when all the clubs want is gas powered kit?

No, this is just a rumour chaps, do not worry, all is well, Air Cadet gliding will start soon, I promise you!

I can remember when rumours started about military camps closing around the UK. These rumours were scotched and the camps involved started to spruce themselves up and everything was painted. Then they closed them down!!

Years ago I went on a business course and one of the pieces of course work was a project to look at the demise of the British motorcycle industry. It all started with the import of cheap 50cc Honda motor cycles with electric start and weather protection. The British motorcycle industry just ignored this and watched it happen!! Remember, big companies like BSA, Ariel, Norton, Royal Enfield, Norton, Vincent, Velocette and Triumph. At the end of the day they put it down to bad management!!

I can imagine the business schools thinking about "Air Cadet Gliding and what became of it!" in years to come as a future project.

No, closing Air Cadet gliding schools is only a nasty rumour!

Last edited by Frelon; 9th Oct 2015 at 10:05.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 16:29
  #619 (permalink)  
 
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There appears to be no will to do anything associated with risk in the ACO at present.
Cadet deaths when flying have led to greater reluctance to overlook the risks associated with flying. Cadet deaths during AT have led to greater reluctance to overlook the risks associated with AT. Hardly surprising, however unfortunate the impact on the amount of flying/AT being done!

The cadets have virtually no opportunity to fly and are leaving in droves.
Do you have any figures to back this up?

I just can't understand why the organisation isn't making up for it, and therefore re-engaging the cadets, by offering more sqn visits and jollies.
Do you mean ATC sqns going on visits, or ATC visits to RAF sqns? And what kind of jollies?
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Old 10th Oct 2015, 18:06
  #620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
The cadets have virtually no opportunity to fly and are leaving in droves.
Do you have any figures to back this up?
Yes. My sons squardon has gone from 30 to 14 in two years.
Do you mean ATC sqns going on visits, or ATC visits to RAF sqns? And what kind of jollies?
ATC visits to RAF sqns, and, a jolly, as in a ride in anything that the RAF has going.

Latest from the Commandant Air Cadets FB page;
I had a catch up call with the AOC and he is focussed on mtgs associated with the glider recovery programme, which is at a critical stage. As soon as we know what option has been agreed, we will ensure that information is cascaded to everyone who needs to know but, due to commercial and contractual sensitivities, I regret I cannot tell you what option are under consideration. Rest assured, the boss and his senior colleagues are doing all they can.
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