Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Air Cadets grounded?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Air Cadets grounded?

Old 11th Sep 2015, 20:07
  #461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: nr Ely, Cambs
Age: 57
Posts: 369
Wander00. Spot on!
brokenlink is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2015, 22:47
  #462 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 65
Posts: 3,118
the only serious accident we had (stall/spin from winch launch cable break) was being flown by a 'fully qualified' ex RAF pilot.
Indeed. I've met some seriously gash mil pilots in GA. Most aren't I might add but I've been surprised at some of them.

Edited to add: there are some seriously gash non mil pilots too but you would probably expect a certain percentage who do it for a hobby now and again to cock up occasionally.
thing is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2015, 10:06
  #463 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 60
Posts: 262
Exactly Thing. With regards to RAF pilots, I've always been amazed at how many people (generally not pilots I hasten to add) assume that just because a pilot is Sierra Hotel in a Typhoon or Tornado, they can just hop in a Champ or Cub. For example, RAF pilots recieve excellent training in nosedraggers, and (in my experience) are excellent operators - in nosedraggers. Put one in a taildragger and (without further training) it'll eat his or her lunch!
Look at the T-61 (AKA Venture). A very simple machine that can humble even the best pilot. Landing any monowheel on concrete in a crosswind is not for the faint-hearted!
And if you get a cable break at a tricky height, the best person to handle it is someone current on type and winch launching!
Anyway, back on track. I guess they had the money to build the new HQ because they hadn't spent any on actually flying! I don't suppose anyone on the inside can give us an update on how the 'pause' is proceeding (or not)?
DaveUnwin is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2015, 10:34
  #464 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 77
Posts: 6,365
Of course the usual sequel to the completion of any HQ is cancellation and closure..............hat, coat............
Wander00 is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2015, 10:44
  #465 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a hole with an owl
Posts: 110

For example, RAF pilots receive excellent training in nosedraggers, and (in
my experience) are excellent operators - in nosedraggers. Put one in a
taildragger and (without further training) it'll eat his or her lunch!
You're not kidding. I'd just finished my second tour on F4s when I got the chance to fly a Tiger Moth - dual, of course. I've never worked so hard in my life and the (ahem) 'ability gaps' in my godlike poling abilities were plain for all to see. I climbed out of that aircraft a very chastened chap!
Ali Qadoo is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2015, 13:06
  #466 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 4,039
Listening to the distant jungle drum beat I hear that about half a dozen Vigilants will be airworthy at Syerston by the autumn and there are absolutely no Vikings airworthy yet - the latter despite there being several agencies working on them and one being a well respected sailplane maintenance organisation!

I'm guessing there must be some really significant issues as its now nearly 18 months since they 'pulled stumps' (or pause, grounded, gone tech, or whatever you want to call it! ).

Obviously, a new HQ and Hangar comes out of a different budget to potentially newly purchased gliders (the old RDEL/CDEL game). But from a taxpayers viewpoint supporting a great youth organisation, it does seem a bit 'arse about face' sorting out the infra whilst everything else is knackered. I'm also hearing rumours of a new runway at Syerston - I have to say, what's wrong with the grass? Defence and the Public Purse is supposed to be skint!

There are still some big 'elephants in the room' as well as the Vigilants were originally getting new engines and PowerFLARM fitted from 2015. I don't believe that the current work to return the aircraft to flying status will address these (unless anyone else knows different)?

LJ
Lima Juliet is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2015, 15:53
  #467 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 37
Few beers with my old Viking dudes last week. Quite clear the VGS organisation has been destroyed. Most instructors have finally seen the light and done one, the system hasn't a clue what dates VGSS will get gliders again and some say centre continue to fire out directives like they have an army of employees. any goodwill from the volunteers has gone apparently. I don't think they'll get it back from this. So so sad from what it was. So glad I went civvy, we see loads of youngsters our way now as well.
Jimmyjerez is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2015, 18:46
  #468 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 65
Posts: 3,118
Flew past Syerston this afternoon, looked very deserted. Sad.
thing is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2015, 14:33
  #469 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Age: 51
Posts: 476
Thing, I'm not surprised, you can count the amount of availlable aircraft on one hand!
iRaven is offline  
Old 13th Sep 2015, 20:32
  #470 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: northofwhereiusedtobe
Posts: 1,344
I don't suppose anyone on the inside can give us an update on how the 'pause' is proceeding (or not)?
Nah its all top secret !

LJ - the actual physical problems with the gliders do not necessarily have to be really serious from an airworthiness angle - quite often the biggest problems can come from the 'paperwork trail' and log book anomalies these days !
longer ron is online now  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 14:06
  #471 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,214
Nail hit on head

Longer Ron has the situation summed up in a nutshell, it is the paper trail that is the problem add a bit of CYA and a bit of " that's not how we do it on the C130, hawk, typhoon" and you get the picture.

As with all projects like this it is getting the process set up that takes the time, once all are happy with the way to go about things then the return to service rate will accelerate.
A and C is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 14:56
  #472 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 34
once all are happy with the way to go about things
The fact that this has taken 18 months to deliver zero Vikings is risible.
Aggamemnon is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 15:07
  #473 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Somewhere in England
Posts: 173
Wink The 17 mth "pause"

Expect an announcement in next 7-10 days.
EnigmAviation is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 15:17
  #474 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 60
Posts: 262
"....the return to service rate will accelerate."
I don't mean to sound pedantic, but as thus far ZERO Vikings have been returned to service, surely the ' return to service' process needs to start before it can accelerate?
And, judging by some comments on here, huge damage to the VGS organisation has already been done.
It really is a damn shame. I had my first-ever flight in an ATC T-21 more than 40 years ago, as (I suspect) did many others on here. It was at Tangmere, and the cable broke at 400ft. Great fun, and as we swept down for a graceful landing I knew then that flying was what I wanted to do.
I feel very sorry for all the cadets who haven't flown in a glider over the last 18 months.

Last edited by DaveUnwin; 14th Sep 2015 at 15:19. Reason: Dodgy grammar!
DaveUnwin is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 15:27
  #475 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,085
Of course the usual sequel to the completion of any HQ is cancellation and closure............
Many a true word.....


I heard the other day, that it will cost 100,000/airframe to get the Vigilants flying again.

The entire pyramid of currency, training , seniority, etc will have to be rebuilt from the top downwards. That will take years.

On top of that, the task of rebuilding the volunteer base itself will be enormous, as the vast majority of the volunteers will have found other things to do with their time by now.

I can't see the VGSs ever recovering from this shambles.


MJ

PS. Lucky I'm not one for conspiracy theories.

Last edited by Mach Jump; 14th Sep 2015 at 17:10. Reason: Added Ps.
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 16:47
  #476 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 77
Posts: 6,365
MJ - if that estimate is true would have been cheaper and a [email protected]@dy sight quicker to buy new aeroplanes
Wander00 is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 17:38
  #477 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,043
Buy what new aeroplanes ??

The Vigilant has been out of production for a long time now. And the Viking as well.

There are not many other 'suitable' types to replace either in production at the present time. And not many small aeroplane manufacturers can cope with rapid delivery of these types of aeroplane in volume................

So not really an option.

I am also wondering which 'Organisation' would do the maintenance of the Vikings going forward. There are over 100 airframes - no small number..........

Arc
Arclite01 is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 17:58
  #478 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Britain
Age: 54
Posts: 291
Scheibe Falkes and Schleicher ASK-21s are still in production. Indeed the RAFGSA is taking delivery of brand new Turbo Falkes at present. No need for these as they're being used as glider tugs as well, but the normal rotax 912 variants are less than 100k each.

I'm sure, after 18 months, we could have had some brand spanking new Falkes and K-21s to fly the Cadets in. Grob aren't the only guys in this game and as well as the others I've mentiomed there is also Diamond Dimonas to comsider as well.

CPL Clott

Corporal Clott is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 19:19
  #479 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South of Watford
Posts: 891
It's not just the lack of staff that will be challenging. The communities around these now dormant airfields have grown use to the quiet weekends. The re-introduction of operation, particularly obviously Vigilants, will need to be preceded by a hearts and minds campaign.
I wonder if CGS/CFS have taken the opportunity to review some of the documentation associated with the operation including the engineering F700? No I thought not so over time this could all happen again.
pitotheat is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2015, 20:45
  #480 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wessex
Posts: 472
How many nice shiny (new) Skylaunch winches have they received now?
Rocket2 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.