Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Air Cadets grounded?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Air Cadets grounded?

Old 31st May 2017, 17:32
  #3561 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Great Yarmouth
Posts: 86
Well at least some Cadets from Norfolk and Suffolk Wing managed to get airborne this week, courtesy of Norfolk Gliding Club at Tibenham and the RFCA who apparently funded it. Almost certainly the first gliding in Norfolk by Cadets since 611VGS ceased flying at Watton in 2012...
Auster Fan is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2017, 08:38
  #3562 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 114
Cardiff Cadets flew in Vigilants

https://twitter.com/1344sqnatc/statu...41887833890816

No mention of 645 VGS just weeks after starting to fly cadets again losing their aircraft to provide this political sideshow!
boswell bear is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2017, 23:22
  #3563 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Uranus
Posts: 326
ZH186 TY

Well small ray of light - the aircraft in the picture is ZH186- my first ever solo machine back in 1996.

So happy to see it's avoided the chop hopefully will be able to sit in it again sometime.
Shaft109 is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2017, 18:45
  #3564 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 72
Posts: 914
How many Vikings actually back on a Squadron

Does anyone know how many Vikings are back in 'Squadron' service, and indeed what the staffing level is at any Squadron operating !!!
POBJOY is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2017, 23:42
  #3565 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 41
You won't run out of fingers and toes... FOI request?
Whizz Bang is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2017, 20:21
  #3566 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 72
Posts: 914
Vikings in actual Squadron service now

Judging by the lack of response from Squadron staff excited by actually flying 'REAL' aircraft I will not hold my breath.
POBJOY is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2017, 19:05
  #3567 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 72
Posts: 914
Stealth Vikings !!

It appears that Southern Sailplanes are well on the case of the 'hands on' recovery task, but the 'recovered airframes' are then subject to further scrutiny by the very company that caused the problem in the first place.
A bit like 'yes minister' without the humour.
In fact John Cleese is looking at a new series 'Yes Air Commodore' which does not even have to be scripted due to them being able to use actual records and documents direct from MOD.
Some of the best scenes will depict a 'boffin' sitting in his plastic bath; like Archimedes with a lap top. He then cries out to his wife CISTRS (My dear I have just designed the perfect glider replacement) We can buy the tubs from B&Q and make a fortune, and no need for silly winches or indeed anything!
POBJOY is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2017, 14:45
  #3568 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: East Anglia
Age: 69
Posts: 763
I hear that the latest plan is to recover just 55 Vikings.

Taking out the aircraft that will be permanently allocated to CGS at Syerston, plus those on maintenance, that doesn't leave a lot of airframes to spread across the remaining gliding schools.

What an utter disgrace!
1.3VStall is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2017, 15:23
  #3569 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,008
1.3

Approx 6 per school then (max)

Arc
Arclite01 is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2017, 15:31
  #3570 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 75' from the runway edge and 150' from the threshold
Age: 70
Posts: 160
Don't you just love politics?

I think now is the time for me to approach my 10+1 MPs in relation to the perfidious closure of 664 VGS and the illegal acts perpetrated by all and sundry in this sordid little act of total negligence.
ACW342 is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2017, 10:06
  #3571 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Somewhere in England
Posts: 173
Just run it past me one more time, what were the original Viking and Vigilant numbers in total, and what are the numbers of airframes being recovered ? Sounds like almost as big a disaster as Theresa May ! Maybe her special advisers Rasputin & his female assistant who have just been sacked trained at the same place as those who masterminded this VGS meltdown !
EnigmAviation is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2017, 16:16
  #3572 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 78
Posts: 4,184
EA:-
Maybe her special advisers Rasputin & his female assistant who have just been sacked trained at the same place as those who masterminded this VGS meltdown !
The ones who masterminded this were in RAF uniform, albeit VSO ones. The unairworthiness that now permeates the UK military air fleets is a direct result of their illegal actions and orders. The ACO aircraft could be "paused" whereas other operational fleets could not. None of them can be assumed to be airworthy, least of all by the MAA.
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2017, 16:27
  #3573 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hants
Age: 75
Posts: 357
Viking

The ACO originally purchased 100 Vikings. Over the years this dwindled to around 70 airwothy aircraft as incidents damaged them and rather than repair them ACCGS put them in store or sold them. To explain this there was a problem with getting host stations to accept winch launched operations and so the Vigilant fleet was grown to about the same numbers. Whilst there may have been very temporary shortages it never stopped us flying the remaining serviceable ones.

ACW
ACW418 is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2017, 20:19
  #3574 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 72
Posts: 914
Damaged Vikings

Several Vikings have been written off/damaged in hangar 'snow' collapse's over the years, the price of keeping your modern fleet in WW1 hangars !!!!
In fact they seem to have 'migrated' to the GSA who managed to repair some of them.
Syerston had a purpose built 'glass shop' that does not seem to have ever rebuilt a machine; so I would have thought this would have rung a few warning bells somewhere. Something seriously wrong with a system that has a fleet of new support trucks, winches, and a new HQ, but no gliders !!!
POBJOY is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 08:03
  #3575 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 46
Hangar collapses?

What VGS had aircraft written-off or damaged in hangar collapses? I only ask because I don't recall any in my time.
campbeex is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 10:07
  #3576 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 777
I'd like to ask the good people of PPRuNe for some help. I'm (slowly) putting together the full story of this debacle, with a view to getting the RAeS to take a formal interest, and then get the House of Commons Defence Committee to ask some questions. I have made a few FoI requests, asking for the Ageing Aircraft Audit reports for Viking and Vigilant, as well as more of the MAA CAMO audit reports. Unsurprisingly, the MoD is having trouble finding its own (mandatory) paperwork. I have also built a timeline of this thread, which makes for some surprising reading, especially the huge gaps between statements from OC 2FTS and the reality of the situation. Also the wholly misleading 'supporting' statements made by Ministers and RAF VSOs along the way.

I happily admit that I have big gaps in my understanding, and would appreciate any responses, or PMs, on the following:

1. Can anyone identify the original (and subsequent) Design Authorities for the Viking and the Vigilant? To be clear, who issued (and kept up to date) the Certificates of Design (used to be called the Form 100)?
2. Could anyone identify when the maintenance of the aircraft originally went out to contract, and what were the arrangements before that date?

I apologise for the very basic nature of these questions, i'm sure that with enough of a trawl through the data I could get a decent answer - but I've always found that PPRuNe is full of helpful and knowledgable people.

Best regards as ever to all those who know where the skeletons really are,

Engines
Engines is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 11:05
  #3577 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Old Hampshire
Age: 63
Posts: 559
Originally Posted by campbeex View Post
What VGS had aircraft written-off or damaged in hangar collapses? I only ask because I don't recall any in my time.
IIRC There was the radio controlled Land Rover that went out of control and shot through the side of the VGS hangar at Aberporth wrecking a few Vikings.
VX275 is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 11:31
  #3578 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 719
.... the radio controlled Land Rover that went out of control and shot through the side of the VGS hangar at Aberporth ....
(The Landy) ... thought it had been re-chipped as a Jindivik, did it ??

And on a more serious note -

Engines .............

A big BZ for what you are doing. Even if we can't all help with your research, I'm sure (I hope) that most of the folks here are (should be) applauding your efforts.

LFH (one time ATC cadet - two times gliding - both press-ganged)

Last edited by Lordflasheart; 14th Jun 2017 at 10:01. Reason: syntax
Lordflasheart is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 15:57
  #3579 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hants
Age: 75
Posts: 357
Aberprth

No it was a radio controlled Land Rover. Another number of Vikings were destroyed at Predannick (sp) when snow collected on the temporary hangar and caused it to collapse. Might have been a Besonnau - can't remember.

ACW
ACW418 is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 16:38
  #3580 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,008
POBJOY

I seem to remember a Viking that had had a severe tail accident (501 ?) it had been repaired in house but the tail dolly did not fit as the fuselage width was too wide for the dolly to close ! - that one was always kept at Syerston and not issued to schools as it would not be able to be used....... we were told it was structurally sound................

Arc
Arclite01 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.