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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 13th Feb 2017, 14:31
  #3241 (permalink)  
 
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A minimal amount of RAF discipline, and smartness enhanced ones place in the queue.
So if you were the one hooking on the winch cables, and had the seasonally dependent green or brown knees and elbows, you could be pretty certain of getting the hangar flight?
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 15:20
  #3242 (permalink)  
 
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Fitter

Any VGS I have served with would have been disappointed to give AEG Cadets any less than 3 launches in a day.

The target was 3 - 4 launches and sometimes 5. There was not a limit on the number of launches that could be done in a day at that time. In later Viking days there was a more rigid fatigue monitoring programme and launches for GIC seemed limited at around 3 per cadet/day (AFAIR).............

Sounds like you were short changed to me.....

Arc
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 16:50
  #3243 (permalink)  
 
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As recently as 2013, if my memory is correct, 612 were capable of flying my entire RAF section of 50+ cadets, one flight each in a Vigilant, in a single day. We shuttled them between gliding, range (we ran ourselves) and an assault course (thanks to the army). Feels like a bygone age.
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 16:59
  #3244 (permalink)  
 
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So if you were the one hooking on the winch cables, and had the seasonally dependent green or brown knees and elbows, you could be pretty certain of getting the hangar flight
No, it showed keenness - front of the queue

Sounds like you were short changed to me....
There were 2 Leeds squadrons (168, the best in the West Riding of course, and 208) of about 50 cadets each. I was 14 at the time and happy to get off the ground at all. We all got to fly. Did my 20 launches and A&B a bit later, and haven't stopped since
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 19:14
  #3245 (permalink)  
 
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For many years there have been three threads to VGS Cadet training, GIC = Gliding induction Course in three distinct stages teaching effects of controls. Gliding Scholarship = the full training to solo standard, and AGT = Advanced training for Cadets U/T who are Flight Staff Cadets.
Surely it only takes a couple of flights at most to teach effects of the controls? And what determines if the cadet can continue to solo?
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Old 14th Feb 2017, 09:01
  #3246 (permalink)  
 
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612 VGS were an efficient bunch. On a detachment to RAF Valley for Cadet 150 they were given a target by the Station Commander (and ex 612 Staff Cadet) of 150 cadets to be given a GIC1 flight. Despite losing 3 hours to rain the number of cadets flown over the two days was over 160. The Cadets were a mix of Air, Sea and Army and a common question from the Army and Sea cadets as they walked away from the aircraft was "How do I transfer to the Air Cadets?"
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Old 14th Feb 2017, 09:36
  #3247 (permalink)  
 
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Cats

my post #3097 (written specifically for you) covers all your questions

Arc
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Old 14th Feb 2017, 10:03
  #3248 (permalink)  
 
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Target was for Cadets on Basic training (GIC) that they got at least 3 launches a day - sometimes 5. Primary Effects of Controls type stuff.
I realise these are probably just circuits but 5 flights seems a lot to understand effect of controls, especially for an age group who learn faster than many can teach. If you want nicely co-ordinated turns that does take a little longer.
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Old 14th Feb 2017, 11:02
  #3249 (permalink)  
 
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Based on 3 flights (not always 5)

1 flight to do a basic familiarization with the launch and the local area, airfield layout etc
1 flight for elevator and ailerons
1 flight for rudder and use of co-ordinated controls

Additional flights are bonus trips for consolidation.

Arc
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Old 14th Feb 2017, 20:24
  #3250 (permalink)  
 
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W-End or continuous course

I recall a 'card' system coming into use after i was 'elevated' from P2 to actual proficiency training.
It was to cover the lack of instructor continuity so a record of training was available to follow the individual Cadet.
I always considered that 'turning' should have had more emphasis before one moved on to circuits and emergency training.
If a cadet could do accurate turns then the ongoing training was far more effective then trying to fit this in with the added decisions required for circuits.
As this had to be contained within a 2-3 min flight i think we expected too much some times. Added to the rather low heights that some maneuvers had to be performed at on a small airfield, the ability to perform accurate turns allowed the individual to concentrate on the exercise in hand rather than trying to catch up with probably the most important requirement in gliding.
We also suffered from the ongoing 'continuity' situation with both weather and Cadet/Instructor availability. Considering all the above it is a great credit to all those involved that so many A&B's were gained with so little in the way of the normal 'facilities' associated with ab initio training that the main stream RAF system enjoyed. Shame that those that that inherited the running of our organisation were incapable of holding it together.
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 08:19
  #3251 (permalink)  
 
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POB

The progress card system was well established on all the VGS that I ever taught at.

Usually there were boxes for 'attempts' by the student, once judged 'proficient' at the Ex it was signed off. It was revisited as part of the ongoing training and ultimately as part of the solo check. It certainly gave instructors a continuity check for students.

There was also a space for 'comments' as a I recall, which gave some feeling for the students ability......................

All part of the built in safety mechanism.

Arc

Edit: I think actually it was box scores 1 through 5 with 1 being 'low' and 5 'satisfactory'

Last edited by Arclite01; 15th Feb 2017 at 08:20. Reason: 1 to 5
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 08:23
  #3252 (permalink)  
 
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BGA clubs use cards as well.
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 08:25
  #3253 (permalink)  
 
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As this had to be contained within a 2-3 min flight
A circuit in a Viking from even a moderate runway should be longer than 2-3 minutes - an advantage of glass & modern winches.
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 08:40
  #3254 (permalink)  
 
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Arc

The 'comments' section used to contain some great one liners I remember...

OB
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 09:30
  #3255 (permalink)  
 
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Ops

My favourite being 'this student never makes the same mistake twice - he makes a new one every time..............'

or 'Life is too short to fly with this guy..........'

or ' He's co-ordinated in an unco-ordinated way.................'

or 'He could be good if he wasn't so bad...........'

or 'all the co-ordination of a cluster of colour blind hedgehogs in a bag.................'

or 'Speed control acceptable within a 50Kt range............'

Arc
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 09:34
  #3256 (permalink)  
 
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Cats

Pobjoy was talking about the Cadet Mk3 - not the Viking. Viking circuits always at least 5 minutes sometimes 10 or 12................. (average 8 mins)

I have some Cadet Mk3 circuits of 2 minutes (not launch failures !)

Arc
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 10:53
  #3257 (permalink)  
 
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Cats, we are talking of a 600ft launch on a good day on a small airfield, half of which was not available to use because it was reserved for RAF sports with associated rugby/football goalposts. Neither did we have Skylaunch winches. Most circuits were sub 3 minutes!!

It was a case of take a launch, release turn left, turn left wait a bit, turn left and land!!

This system was not designed to make soaring pilots but those who did this training remember it with fondness. Hence all the postings on this and other nostalgia threads on Air Cadet gliding.

Thanks Fitter (post #3259) it was rare that we actually carried out "square" circuits. Indeed on one run the final turn was more like a 110 degree turn!!

Last edited by Frelon; 15th Feb 2017 at 13:15.
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 11:19
  #3258 (permalink)  
 
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It was a case of take a launch, release turn left, turn left wait a bit, turn left and land!!
I hope there was enough height to turn left twice after 'wait a bit'. A significant number did turn into soaring pilots.
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 12:53
  #3259 (permalink)  
 
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2-3 Min Flights

As Frelon confirms, at Kenley we had a 'leg of mutton' shaped field that was also restricted due sports facilities.This not only gave us a poor length option but was quite challenging on cable breaks.However the upside is that Kenley has enjoyed a very long secure tenure and is not an MOD asset that can be sold off.
All our operations were at the lower heights and final turns very much a 200 ft job due to the lack of space,and lack of spoilers. My point was/is that for us this was the 'norm', so Cadets had to be able to make accurate safe turns despite not having an ideal amount of time to practice.In hindsight we probably should have introduced use of spoilers (that came on an advanced course) at the ab initio stage due to our situation. The simple fact is we were so privileged to be operating at this famous Battle of Britain airfield we just made it work and of course the Mk3 fitted the purpose very well.To increase the 'safety aspect' for first solo's our CO instigated a low use cable reserved for these launches, another case of common sense working well, and keeping the operation safe despite operating restrictions.
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Old 15th Feb 2017, 13:50
  #3260 (permalink)  
 
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Did anyone else allow themselves a wry smile reading the puff in the papers today around the Duchess visiting the ATC at Wittering yesterday ? She saw the ATC "flying" on a simulator, then "shooting" on a range simulator, then was shown a Grob Tutor that can't fly at weekends when the cadets are off school because the tower's shut. Ah well, never mind, my BGA club soloed an air cadet late last year, but guess what, no recognition on his unit's website or facebook page, and I understand he still doesn't know whether he can wear his wings on his ATC uniform. Solrry, just getting grumpy in my old age !
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