Air Cadets grounded?

[POBJOY]

Blue/Green book

Quite correct Fitter although i do not have the original on hand to view,and was confusing the colour with the similar era 3822.

[zetec2]

I've got one of those, same green colour, A,B & C June 1960

[wub]

Mine is green too, 1967

[4mastacker]

My 1964 book is green as well. Certificate # 40166.

[Andy H]

Mine is green too. But having looked at the 55 year old photo on the last page I'm wondering if it was really me. No beard you see.....

[Fitter2]

My 1964 book is green as well. Certificate # 40166.

So about 11,500 A&B certs from March 1960 to some time in 1964, the vast majority of whom would be through the ATC VGS system

How many in the last 4 years ?

A high proportion of the RAFGSA and BGA glider pilots of my generation started with the ATC; many of the RAF personnel I served with in the '60s came by that route. What have we (the UK) lost?

[cats_five]

How many in the last 4 years ?

Almost none from the ATC.

[POBJOY]

A & B Cert What was lost

I am not aware when the decision was made to only have one solo at the end of
the standard gliding course;but what was lost was the ability to apply for an internationally recognised certificate that was the start of a potential journey through gliding.
Many Cadets progressed to a single seater and gained 'c' and even bronze (whilst still in the ATC) which was the pointer towards a silver later.The clubs were all familiar with that route and therefore an established link was there which suited all.
The organisation 'missed the boat' on starting an upgrade when they rejected the T53 and then failed to see the benefit of improving the equipment when at least there was some interest in doing so. The T53 may not have been the answer but a licenced built Blanik certainly would have been a benefit both for the organisation and the ability of Slingsby to stay in the business and develop 'metal' skills. With so many Cadets having been encouraged to 'self develop' they would have been a good source to inject 'youth' into the clubs.The whole point of conventional gliding was the Cadets had lots of activities to get involved with and lots of aircraft handling on a real airfield.
This was the unique facility that the ATC offered, and what the organisation delivered so well,and what has been thrown away by those charged with looking after the operation. All they had to do was to keep it as good as it was; being clueless they could not even manage that.

[Wander00]

Pob - you are not wrong. One of the jewels of the range of youth movements has sadly been lost - our offspring will not thank us for it

[Corporal Clott]

Latest rumours are "RAF" Swanton Morley and "RAF" South Cerney may be returning for gliding purposes...

If true then it would be:

Kirknewton
Syerston
Kenley
Little Rissington
Predannack
South Cerney
Swanton Morley
Upavon
Ternhill
Topcliffe (until the end of Vigilant)

As far as I can work out. Anyone any closer to this to know the final bed down?

CPL Clott

[Arclite01]

Is that Swanton Morley as a replacement for Wethersfield and South Cerney as a replacement for Merryfield ??

I don't get that. South Cerney is so close to Little Ris as makes no odds, except that the site may have a longer life in MoD hands. Swanton has trees all over it and the Army have already said the site is closing in 2023................and Swanton is inside the Norwich CTA ............

unless these 2 are additional short term 'flexibility' sites..................

Arc

[brokenlink]

Swanton Morley is slated for closure surely when the Army pulls out in a few years time.

[terry holloway]

Originally Posted by brokenlink

Swanton Morley is slated for closure surely when the Army pulls out in a few years time.

That's what it says in the local papers. Anyway, I would have thought the airfield surfaces would be poor?

[pr00ne]

Swanton Morley is scheduled to close in 2031.

Plenty of time to operate a VGS and/or a regional Gliding centre, just like they used to.

[cats_five]

Is it time to bin this lot and fund the BGA with lotto money to run the 'Air Scouts' then the Air Cadets can be affiliated to fly. Give them all the old air frames and let them work it out.

It's the BGA clubs which do the flying, not the BGA itself, and I doubt many of the clubs would welcome an unworthy airframe being dumped on their doorstep. It's quite enough to keep their own gliders (and paperwork) airworthy.

[cats_five]

PS most of us don't wear uniforms or badges at BGA clubs, or salute, or any of the other military things the ATC get up to, plus there seems to be confusion about what the ATC want to achieve at present - an airex flight, or an attempt to teach a cadet to fly. The two are very different, if you don't know what you want to achieve you won't achieve it...

[ATFQ]

Originally Posted by Arclite01

Is that Swanton Morley as a replacement for Wethersfield and South Cerney as a replacement for Merryfield ??

I don't get that. South Cerney is so close to Little Ris as makes no odds, except that the site may have a longer life in MoD hands. Swanton has trees all over it and the Army have already said the site is closing in 2023................and Swanton is inside the Norwich CTA ............

unless these 2 are additional short term 'flexibility' sites..................

Arc

And half of the staff of 614 VGS (Wethersfield) live more than a 2-hour drive from Swanton Morley. Given that we are dealing with volunteers, this is an important factor in considering the viability of Swanton Morley as an operating site if future output is important.

[jmtw2]

Originally Posted by ATFQ

And half of the staff of 614 VGS (Wethersfield) live more than a 2-hour drive from Swanton Morley. Given that we are dealing with volunteers, this is an important factor in considering the viability of Swanton Morley as an operating site if future output is important.

There's also another issue tied in with the long 'commuting' times, which compounds the problem.

The maximum staff working day ('Crew Duty Time') of 12 hours includes travelling time to and from an individual's private residence.

[EnigmAviation]

PS most of us don't wear uniforms or badges at BGA clubs, or salute, or any of the other military things the ATC get up to, plus there seems to be confusion about what the ATC want to achieve at present - an airex flight, or an attempt to teach a cadet to fly. The two are very different, if you don't know what you want to achieve you won't achieve it...

Cats Five,

I have news for you ! In the VGS there has been no such thing as Air Ex, that only occurs in the AEF's on Tutors ! For many years there have been three threads to VGS Cadet training, GIC = Gliding induction Course in three distinct stages teaching effects of controls. Gliding Scholarship = the full training to solo standard, and AGT = Advanced training for Cadets U/T who are Flight Staff Cadets. And finally - no saluting as headgear is banned as a FOD hazard ! Thus we all knew exactly what the standards were, and operated very efficiently to those different criteria.

[Fitter2]

In the 1950s there were arrangements for an ATC Squadron to visit a VGS and give each cadet a single Sedburgh circuit, with the rest of the day spent cleaning and ground handling gliders plus anything else we could do (under excellent supervision). A minimal amount of RAF discipline, and smartness enhanced ones place in the queue. I don't know if Rufforth was any different from the rest of the VGS world.