Air Cadets grounded?
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Mandator
I smell spin doctors at work.......................
Ultimately the most boring experience - absolute scandal...............in the current circumstances.
Arc
I smell spin doctors at work.......................
and hopefully see them each reach the ultimate Air Cadet goal of taking the controls of The Grob 115E Tutor T Mk1 plane during their first flight.
Arc
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Just a quick update on the eMail (Full Text : see Post 2272 http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...unded-114.html) I sent to my MP asking a very specific question on this topic.
My MP's reply ...
I will update further when I have a reply ...
My MP's reply ...
I have therefore directed your questions to the Minister, Julian Brazier for his comments
A New Era!
A simple Google search found.....
Well, a new era it certainly is
Group Captain John Middleton said:
I feel honoured to have the opportunity to take air cadet gliding forward into a new era, and thank all at No 3 Flying Training School for taking excellent care of air cadet gliding in recent years.
I feel honoured to have the opportunity to take air cadet gliding forward into a new era, and thank all at No 3 Flying Training School for taking excellent care of air cadet gliding in recent years.
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JP:-
Coffman Starter's link above gives a clue as to what has been done here, which is to offer him a poisoned chalice that he has eagerly accepted. It takes a certain type to do that, and as often as not they have already reached the level of their own incompetence and been selected for that very reason. It is those who have made that selection and their reasons for doing so that deserve inspection.
As others have pointed out, the ACO is an excellent organisation, doing essential work for the Royal Air Force in particular, by providing the seed corn of its future aircrew and engineers. It is only able to do this thanks to the expertise, knowledge, and experience of volunteers that is given freely and willingly. I can only applaud such selflessness and feel guilty that I have not done likewise.
That this excellent organisation has been so badly served by the main recipient of its output is a comment on the RAF leadership, the very leadership that still conspires to cover up the incompetence and negligence of VSOs that infected the UK military airfleet with unairworthiness, including the gliders and motor gliders of the ACO. That same cover up extended to the Haddon-Cave report, to the extent of calling the era of that subversion a "Golden Period"! Irony it seems blooms in the corridors of power.
The Royal Air Force appears to be set upon self destruction as it approaches its centenary. "Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad"...mad or bad?
Can someone please tell us JM's background? JP
As others have pointed out, the ACO is an excellent organisation, doing essential work for the Royal Air Force in particular, by providing the seed corn of its future aircrew and engineers. It is only able to do this thanks to the expertise, knowledge, and experience of volunteers that is given freely and willingly. I can only applaud such selflessness and feel guilty that I have not done likewise.
That this excellent organisation has been so badly served by the main recipient of its output is a comment on the RAF leadership, the very leadership that still conspires to cover up the incompetence and negligence of VSOs that infected the UK military airfleet with unairworthiness, including the gliders and motor gliders of the ACO. That same cover up extended to the Haddon-Cave report, to the extent of calling the era of that subversion a "Golden Period"! Irony it seems blooms in the corridors of power.
The Royal Air Force appears to be set upon self destruction as it approaches its centenary. "Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad"...mad or bad?
Much later, flying air experience first in Air Cadet gliders (Sedburgh/Mk3) then later in Cyclone AX3 microlights, I always made a point of demonstrating primary and further effects to my passenger if it was their first flight, then allowing them to take the controls.
My children's school is sadly suffering an implosion in the numbers of what was once a very well attended and vibrant CCF (200+). Apparently only three turned up this week in the RAF section while historic numbers would be in the high forties+ 
Unfortunately the lack of opportunities across all three sections is having a very bad effect but it is the RAF section that is taking the worst hits. These children joined to fly and experience aspects of the RAF - they feel very short changed with one flight every six months (if they are very lucky) and filling in the balance of their time on drill, swimming, and other activities doesn't really compensate that much.
I've tried helping out by arranging some AEF flights at Odiham in an attempt to re-ignite their interest but I think they are in serious trouble. If anyone has contacts at other bases who might be able to organise a station visit could they please PM me?
Such a shame and waste of potential and eager talent
Unfortunately the lack of opportunities across all three sections is having a very bad effect but it is the RAF section that is taking the worst hits. These children joined to fly and experience aspects of the RAF - they feel very short changed with one flight every six months (if they are very lucky) and filling in the balance of their time on drill, swimming, and other activities doesn't really compensate that much.
I've tried helping out by arranging some AEF flights at Odiham in an attempt to re-ignite their interest but I think they are in serious trouble. If anyone has contacts at other bases who might be able to organise a station visit could they please PM me?
Such a shame and waste of potential and eager talent
CCF AEF
WOKKA; AEF was never really a 'hands on' experience even in Chipmunk days as one struggled out to the rear of the machine and only saw the back of a bone dome inner up front. The Grob at least saw you sat alongside the pilot,but a Cessna 172 would have seen 3 Cadets aloft together sharing the experience all on 150hp.
When they started AE gliding the 'experience' meant complete involvement with the operation and had far more team input.It also sowed the seeds of eventually being able to go on a course and go solo in the same aircraft.
Your CCF is suffering from the fact that the 'Organisation' up top has lost its way in realising that the Cadets join an 'Air Corps' because they have shown an interest in the 'Air' bit. With little of that on offer (and reducing) why would they stay when the 'goods' do not materialise. Gliding WAS a very simple way of getting Cadets involved and hands on with AIRCRAFT; it encompassed the entire operation from moving the machines from a hangar,helping to get them airborne,getting airborne themselves,and seeing them back indoors later.This was the unique nature of what was on offer,and frequently they would also see other Cadets being trained to go solo. That was an experience no other organisation could offer and the decades of results speak for themselves. Sorry about your local problem but the change has to come from the 'leaderless top' who do not have a clue what is needed,as they have 'seen off' a first rate operation that did what it said on the tin (and at very good value for money)
When they started AE gliding the 'experience' meant complete involvement with the operation and had far more team input.It also sowed the seeds of eventually being able to go on a course and go solo in the same aircraft.
Your CCF is suffering from the fact that the 'Organisation' up top has lost its way in realising that the Cadets join an 'Air Corps' because they have shown an interest in the 'Air' bit. With little of that on offer (and reducing) why would they stay when the 'goods' do not materialise. Gliding WAS a very simple way of getting Cadets involved and hands on with AIRCRAFT; it encompassed the entire operation from moving the machines from a hangar,helping to get them airborne,getting airborne themselves,and seeing them back indoors later.This was the unique nature of what was on offer,and frequently they would also see other Cadets being trained to go solo. That was an experience no other organisation could offer and the decades of results speak for themselves. Sorry about your local problem but the change has to come from the 'leaderless top' who do not have a clue what is needed,as they have 'seen off' a first rate operation that did what it said on the tin (and at very good value for money)
I see the trawl for AEF pilots has gone out:
20160418-IBN 33 16 Additional Volunteer Air Experience Pilots.doc
Request For Additional Volunteer Air Experience Pilots – 6 FTS
• Pilots must hold either a Service Flying Badge or CPL.
• By exception, pilots with 500 hrs light aircraft will be considered subject to a positive recommendation and Flying Ability Test.
• Volunteers must either hold a Regular or Reserve Commission or meet the minimum requirements for a Volunteer Reserve (Training) Commission.
• Full conversion training will be provided on Tutor 115E aircraft.
• Volunteers should be able to contribute a minimum of 40 hours flying per year.
I don't see anything specific about VGS pilots. Would the Vigilant count as a 'light aircraft'? It is normally either a TMG or SLMG depending on your PPL type. However, hours on them do count towards revalidation of a SE(P) rating if you hold a valid SLMG or TMG rating on the same licence.
Anyone know what the criteria for VGS pilots is for transferring to AEF? Is it the same as above or something different.
LJ
20160418-IBN 33 16 Additional Volunteer Air Experience Pilots.doc
Request For Additional Volunteer Air Experience Pilots – 6 FTS
• Pilots must hold either a Service Flying Badge or CPL.
• By exception, pilots with 500 hrs light aircraft will be considered subject to a positive recommendation and Flying Ability Test.
• Volunteers must either hold a Regular or Reserve Commission or meet the minimum requirements for a Volunteer Reserve (Training) Commission.
• Full conversion training will be provided on Tutor 115E aircraft.
• Volunteers should be able to contribute a minimum of 40 hours flying per year.
I don't see anything specific about VGS pilots. Would the Vigilant count as a 'light aircraft'? It is normally either a TMG or SLMG depending on your PPL type. However, hours on them do count towards revalidation of a SE(P) rating if you hold a valid SLMG or TMG rating on the same licence.
Anyone know what the criteria for VGS pilots is for transferring to AEF? Is it the same as above or something different.
LJ
AEF Pilots
LJ Where are we with 'Civilians' in the organisation now.
The ATC website still talks about training to be a CGI and also mentions AEF flying as to include:- Taking control,aerobatics,Low level flying. Your 'AEF' Pilot Details' makes no mention of any instruction qualification or will the system put pilots through a CFS course.In practice a 500 hr Vig instructor should have no issues flying the 115 although they may find the whole ATC/Radar bit slightly less fun than back on the school.
I thought the 'low level' flying bit was interesting;do the website people actually know what really is on offer on AEF, and reading it no one would know there has been zero gliding for 3 seasons.
To be honest in trying to suggest that AEF in any way replaces or is an 'improvement' on the ATC Gliding just shows how out of touch the organisation has got,and is quite frankly misleading in its information.
The ATC website still talks about training to be a CGI and also mentions AEF flying as to include:- Taking control,aerobatics,Low level flying. Your 'AEF' Pilot Details' makes no mention of any instruction qualification or will the system put pilots through a CFS course.In practice a 500 hr Vig instructor should have no issues flying the 115 although they may find the whole ATC/Radar bit slightly less fun than back on the school.
I thought the 'low level' flying bit was interesting;do the website people actually know what really is on offer on AEF, and reading it no one would know there has been zero gliding for 3 seasons.
To be honest in trying to suggest that AEF in any way replaces or is an 'improvement' on the ATC Gliding just shows how out of touch the organisation has got,and is quite frankly misleading in its information.
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Many now ex-VGS pilots came from the junior ranks, and many of the junior ranks hold PPLs and could contribute the vital service ethos to the AEFs (especially WSOp's, quite a few of whom have both PPLs and service flying experience), and it would be a shame if they were overlooked for the sake of preserving the "only officers can fly" elitism.
Leon Jabachjabicz wrote:
I hear that Vigilant instructors are to be offered a mere 5 hours conversion onto the Tutor. Presumably conducted by a QFI, not some 'QUI' who hasn't completed the normal CFS course and been formally cat'd.
These new AEF pilots, without any formal aeroplane instructional qualification except for 'sailplane' instruction on TMGs, are apparently then going to be able to let cadets handle the flight controls above 1000'......
How is this being permitted in the MAA risk-averse culture of today?
No doubt That Charming Man Pippa will be able to explain why this is safe, given his thousands of hours experience as a pilot instructor....
Anyone know what the criteria for VGS pilots is for transferring to AEF? Is it the same as above or something different.
These new AEF pilots, without any formal aeroplane instructional qualification except for 'sailplane' instruction on TMGs, are apparently then going to be able to let cadets handle the flight controls above 1000'......
How is this being permitted in the MAA risk-averse culture of today?
No doubt That Charming Man Pippa will be able to explain why this is safe, given his thousands of hours experience as a pilot instructor....
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I suspect he might say 'That's 6 FTS's problem' ... 'I'm 2 FTS' 
Assuming that any of the ex Vigliant instructors are actually assessed as being 'acceptable' that is ...
Assuming that any of the ex Vigliant instructors are actually assessed as being 'acceptable' that is ...
Low Level Flying
I think i will offer my services on the 'Low Level' bit citing my previous experience on the Pawnee (complete with wire cutter) and flying Turbulents under (in my day) 10ft high bunting at airshows. I will be happy to demonstrate this to the Grob Trapper although we may increase the bunting height to 15ft!
The min 1,000ft exercises no good for me as i will get 'giddy' up there and suffer from hypoxia.
They have obviously given all this considerable thought including the 'bale out' provision on the low level bit when the Grob hits an equally low level Canada Goose which are now well established in the UK
In fact the low level 'bird strike' can be well demonstrated in the PTT with the added 'realism' of a whack from a 'ex' free range chicken and liberal use of ketchup from Lidl.
Beagle has that nice chap (hon pres 2FTS) answered your reasonable question yet !!!!
The min 1,000ft exercises no good for me as i will get 'giddy' up there and suffer from hypoxia.
They have obviously given all this considerable thought including the 'bale out' provision on the low level bit when the Grob hits an equally low level Canada Goose which are now well established in the UK
In fact the low level 'bird strike' can be well demonstrated in the PTT with the added 'realism' of a whack from a 'ex' free range chicken and liberal use of ketchup from Lidl.
Beagle has that nice chap (hon pres 2FTS) answered your reasonable question yet !!!!
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BEagle ...
It would seem that the MAA 'Regulator' devolves authority/responsibility under RA 2340 ... See Section RA 2340(1) 2c and 2d ... noting the word 'SHOULD' is used. I thought a Regulator 'Defined' then 'Manadated' and 'Enforced' compliance
RA 2340 Flying of Passengers on UK Mil Aircraft
It would seem that the MAA 'Regulator' devolves authority/responsibility under RA 2340 ... See Section RA 2340(1) 2c and 2d ... noting the word 'SHOULD' is used. I thought a Regulator 'Defined' then 'Manadated' and 'Enforced' compliance
RA 2340 Flying of Passengers on UK Mil Aircraft
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 24th Apr 2016 at 09:24.
CoffmanStarter, MAA regulations appear to ape EASA terminology, in the adoption of 'Acceptable Means of Compliance' soft law. EASA AMCs are non-binding and hence 'should' is correct - AMCs do not use 'shall' or 'must' as Alternative Means of Compliance (AltMoCs) can be raised by a MS as they wish.
AMCs are not a concept used in the UK Air Navigation Order, in which only 'hard law' mandatory regulations are included.
In more sensible times, a military document would use 'are to' for any mandatory regulation - adoption of EASA 'soft law' terminology must be rather confusing for many who are more used to military orders.
AMCs are not a concept used in the UK Air Navigation Order, in which only 'hard law' mandatory regulations are included.
In more sensible times, a military document would use 'are to' for any mandatory regulation - adoption of EASA 'soft law' terminology must be rather confusing for many who are more used to military orders.
I hear that Vigilant instructors are to be offered a mere 5 hours conversion onto the Tutor. Presumably conducted by a QFI, not some 'QUI' who hasn't completed the normal CFS course and been formally cat'd.
These new AEF pilots, without any formal aeroplane instructional qualification except for 'sailplane' instruction on TMGs, are apparently then going to be able to let cadets handle the flight controls above 1000'......
These new AEF pilots, without any formal aeroplane instructional qualification except for 'sailplane' instruction on TMGs, are apparently then going to be able to let cadets handle the flight controls above 1000'......
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BEagle ...
Many thanks and all understood ... I totally agree about the apparent 'confusion' given terminology ... Having, many years ago, had the responsibility of doing the amendments for JSP318 and the Flying Order Book, I'm more accustomed to 'Hard Law' mandatory regulations and Military Orders.
... And if I'm honest, don't see the logic of moving away (for the Military) from a Military Orders model. Presumably it was expedient for the MAA to lift an existing regulatory 'framework' and then 'adapt' in the wake of Haddon Cave.
Simply out of curiosity ... Does anyone know what (regular) 'mechanics' exist for the MAA to ensure compliance ? Do they, say for example, audit all of 22 Groups FO's ?
Many thanks and all understood ... I totally agree about the apparent 'confusion' given terminology ... Having, many years ago, had the responsibility of doing the amendments for JSP318 and the Flying Order Book, I'm more accustomed to 'Hard Law' mandatory regulations and Military Orders.
... And if I'm honest, don't see the logic of moving away (for the Military) from a Military Orders model. Presumably it was expedient for the MAA to lift an existing regulatory 'framework' and then 'adapt' in the wake of Haddon Cave.
Simply out of curiosity ... Does anyone know what (regular) 'mechanics' exist for the MAA to ensure compliance ? Do they, say for example, audit all of 22 Groups FO's ?