Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
smudge,
in theory you are correct about overloading the a/c with pax. However this really only applies to 'normal' pax with a book weight of 180lbs. (is this figure still in use ?). So in theory we could load up to the max of say 90 plus two ALMs provided you had the fuel on first. This of course was on the original 'K' with a TOW of 155000lbs.
However a war load of troops (or paras) was a quite different proposition ! Even trying to get accurate figures for the weight of their kit was a task in itself especially away from a main base.
When half the 'K' fleet was stretched the seat figure went up to 128, with a corresponding increase in the para figures. To partly compensate the TOW of the stretch was upped to 160000lbs from 155000lbs. Iniitally the landing weight was left at 130000lbs but certain trips (mainly Taceval) caused problems so it was upped to 135000lbs. Paradoxically the original frames had their landing weight upped too!
The ZFW remained the same for both marks at 117892, an amazingly 'accurate' figure. And do not get me started on the fuselage bending moments !!!!
in theory you are correct about overloading the a/c with pax. However this really only applies to 'normal' pax with a book weight of 180lbs. (is this figure still in use ?). So in theory we could load up to the max of say 90 plus two ALMs provided you had the fuel on first. This of course was on the original 'K' with a TOW of 155000lbs.
However a war load of troops (or paras) was a quite different proposition ! Even trying to get accurate figures for the weight of their kit was a task in itself especially away from a main base.
When half the 'K' fleet was stretched the seat figure went up to 128, with a corresponding increase in the para figures. To partly compensate the TOW of the stretch was upped to 160000lbs from 155000lbs. Iniitally the landing weight was left at 130000lbs but certain trips (mainly Taceval) caused problems so it was upped to 135000lbs. Paradoxically the original frames had their landing weight upped too!
The ZFW remained the same for both marks at 117892, an amazingly 'accurate' figure. And do not get me started on the fuselage bending moments !!!!
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AA62, I was trying to forget about bending moments, although they did lead to an intersting discussion with a female C141 ALM in Thule of all places. Next we will be covering the 11D lol 
ksmboy,
I am afraid that smudge's question about pax was rather like Pavlov ringing the bell for his dog ! When I did the HEART job I indulged one of my hobby horses and tried to find out the origins of much of the content of the -11D. Not even Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple combined could have made sense of that puzzle.
I am afraid that smudge's question about pax was rather like Pavlov ringing the bell for his dog ! When I did the HEART job I indulged one of my hobby horses and tried to find out the origins of much of the content of the -11D. Not even Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple combined could have made sense of that puzzle.
The successor to 'Concertina City'. Typical 'basha' at RAF Travellers Hill in ASI. Do they still exist and are they used I wonder.
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I did use 11D to get a vehicle on to the aircraft once, bringing a low slung sports car back from a Jersey weekend, shoved under the rear wheel allowed just enough clearance for the exhaust pipe over the toe ramps. Not strictly what it was meant to be used for but did the job.
When I was looking after Ascension from my office at Strike I used to visit the island a lot. The standard accommodation for us at the time was the bashas shown and at one stage I was in a double unit with the other room being occupied by the unit doc who had the same rank and surname as me. Having been roused at 2am one fine night I was hustled into a Landy to attend a medical emergency. Slightly taken aback by the turn of events I suggested that there may have been a slight clerical error and that perhaps if they had explained the situation en-route I could have suggested they wake up the chap next door.
kmsboy,
brilliant. I can think of no finer use for the -11D !
Mal Drop,
you should have just carried on with the medical emergency. After all as these pages have demonstrated there is nothing the 'K' team cannot turn their hands to. Towards the end of the ASI tanking dets those bashas were so little used that we could have had one for each crew member.
brilliant. I can think of no finer use for the -11D !
Mal Drop,
you should have just carried on with the medical emergency. After all as these pages have demonstrated there is nothing the 'K' team cannot turn their hands to. Towards the end of the ASI tanking dets those bashas were so little used that we could have had one for each crew member.
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Always a good pointer that TACEVAL was nearing its end when the role bay was called to prep a frame for full CASEVAC ASAP. I remember some MACR informing us of its pointless exercise due to the lack of stretchers available to be fitted.
Always a bit cautious dipping my hand in the strop bins in the hogs trough after we found what can best be described as a spider of foreign origin in there once, scary when dead never mind alive.
Always a bit cautious dipping my hand in the strop bins in the hogs trough after we found what can best be described as a spider of foreign origin in there once, scary when dead never mind alive.
Bts70,
did you ever actually role the 'K' in full caseavac ? If so I would be interested in any problems you had.
did you ever actually role the 'K' in full caseavac ? If so I would be interested in any problems you had.
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With the talk of moving troops reminded me...
Just before the ground war started and the troops needed to be moved quickly, HQ BFME discussed the issue, obviously not knowing this had already been discussed by AA . They spoke to the Kiwis who were geared up for this by putting pallets down to make a flat floor then putting ratchet strops across the floor in rows. The troops emplaned sat down facing the rear and held onto the strops.
All well and good but OC UKMAMS Wg Cdr (R******d M*****l), decided that this was not good enough and decided that the RAF were to do the same except the strop was to go over the thighs of the troops and tightened to provide a form of restraint.....!!
When someone asked which side the Wg Cdr was on as what he was proposing was liable to break the legs of every soldier on board, he backed down.
This was the same OC UKMAMS who wrote a 2 page letter to all MAMS in Riyadh, telling us we had to abide by H&S at all times and it was our duty to remove ourselves from any potential dangerous situations. Seeing as I was reading it with my respirator following another Scud alert, I said I wanted to go home as per the OCs letter.
I got told to read on and in the last paragraph, he said that being in the RAF we might find ourselves in situations where we had to just carry on as the mission came first. A complete waste of paper and time in sending the letters but the Wg Cdr's a@ was covered I suppose.
Just before the ground war started and the troops needed to be moved quickly, HQ BFME discussed the issue, obviously not knowing this had already been discussed by AA . They spoke to the Kiwis who were geared up for this by putting pallets down to make a flat floor then putting ratchet strops across the floor in rows. The troops emplaned sat down facing the rear and held onto the strops.
All well and good but OC UKMAMS Wg Cdr (R******d M*****l), decided that this was not good enough and decided that the RAF were to do the same except the strop was to go over the thighs of the troops and tightened to provide a form of restraint.....!!
When someone asked which side the Wg Cdr was on as what he was proposing was liable to break the legs of every soldier on board, he backed down.
This was the same OC UKMAMS who wrote a 2 page letter to all MAMS in Riyadh, telling us we had to abide by H&S at all times and it was our duty to remove ourselves from any potential dangerous situations. Seeing as I was reading it with my respirator following another Scud alert, I said I wanted to go home as per the OCs letter.
I got told to read on and in the last paragraph, he said that being in the RAF we might find ourselves in situations where we had to just carry on as the mission came first. A complete waste of paper and time in sending the letters but the Wg Cdr's a@ was covered I suppose.
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Seeing the pic of the ASI BASHA reminds of the rather inclement day the tanker crew sat outside the ALM/Eng accom having a post lunch/pre dinner sharpener. Rain heaving down ,co pilot informs crew "hut 2levels above ours is moving". Duly told by Captain to stop drinking as the rest of us watch hut slip last end of the row of huts. An interesting day all in all , another one of the many Albert produced.
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Bts70 Enjoyed your spider story. Reminded me of some camel spiders that were brought back to AFPSU in parachutes for repacking. This caused such a fuss. London Zoo were brought in and the place had to be fumigated. Not sure if the same was true of the packing shed PEF at Brize.
AA62, yes you are right about the pedigree of the books. The 11C1 was hilarious in parts.
When I was at JATE circa 95 got a bit involved in straps/strops to hold troopers to the lashing rings on the floor in choppers. Not very crashworthy but better than nowt. I know efforts are being made to make the A400M seats crashworthy. What happened to plans to bolt old VC10 seats to 463L pallets?
AA62, yes you are right about the pedigree of the books. The 11C1 was hilarious in parts.
When I was at JATE circa 95 got a bit involved in straps/strops to hold troopers to the lashing rings on the floor in choppers. Not very crashworthy but better than nowt. I know efforts are being made to make the A400M seats crashworthy. What happened to plans to bolt old VC10 seats to 463L pallets?
Talking of "varmints" various. Anyone have knowledge of the large rodent (Copi Capybara ?) that chewed out the wiring loom to the Cargo bay pack, before expiring at altitude ? I'm sure I once read that it happened.
Smudge
Smudge
November4,
I in my innocence thought we had sorted all this troop loading business at the meeting. As you say It was all about 'ass covering' . I recall a signal we received in the build up phase saying all the normal DAC (Dangerous Air Cargo) regulations were to be observed. Of course this swiftly proved to be impossible so MOD were reduced to issuing exemptions on an almost daily basis. The subsequent file would have chocked a jumbo jet.
dragartist,
the issue of the crashworthiness (actually otherwise) of the 'K' para seats was raised during the HEART investigation. I understood the the 'J' would be in the same situation under the 'grandfather rights'.
'Proper seats (ex Beverley) had been trialed on the 'K' in the early days with adaptors to fit the seats to the floor points. As you point out others had used modified 463L pallets on which to mount the seats. The drawback to any of these schemes was the added weight and the loss of role flexibility which was such a vital part of Herc ops.
When I was on 48 in Changi we used to do a trip known as the Gan-Karachi.
This entailed taking the Pakistani workers home from Gan at the end of their contract. To comply with the insurance requirements we had to transport them with the modded ex Beverley seats !
I in my innocence thought we had sorted all this troop loading business at the meeting. As you say It was all about 'ass covering' . I recall a signal we received in the build up phase saying all the normal DAC (Dangerous Air Cargo) regulations were to be observed. Of course this swiftly proved to be impossible so MOD were reduced to issuing exemptions on an almost daily basis. The subsequent file would have chocked a jumbo jet.
dragartist,
the issue of the crashworthiness (actually otherwise) of the 'K' para seats was raised during the HEART investigation. I understood the the 'J' would be in the same situation under the 'grandfather rights'.
'Proper seats (ex Beverley) had been trialed on the 'K' in the early days with adaptors to fit the seats to the floor points. As you point out others had used modified 463L pallets on which to mount the seats. The drawback to any of these schemes was the added weight and the loss of role flexibility which was such a vital part of Herc ops.
When I was on 48 in Changi we used to do a trip known as the Gan-Karachi.
This entailed taking the Pakistani workers home from Gan at the end of their contract. To comply with the insurance requirements we had to transport them with the modded ex Beverley seats !
For sale one slightly secondhand Catalina, suit DIY enthusiast. Taken in the lagoon at Diego Garcia. It was wrecked in a storm in WW2 and has been rotting slowly ever since. The RM det there took us for a high speed trip in the RIB. At that time, pre GW1 the lagoon was full of cargo ships etc. These were all used in that conflict I believe. The captain and I borrowed a sailing boat and sailed right round them. Will tell about the route trip in the next post.
Another tale from the Hammock
AA62, I had two very brief visits to DG in the build up to GW1. Never was introduced to that Cat, but did see a lot of crabs. A few nights there would have been appreciated. Nice shot though, and typical of the beautiful beaches available around the Indian Ocean. I was one of two GEs tasked to a 47SF deployment to Abu Dhabi as part of the GW1 build up, and boy did it start with a bang. Lyneham, refuel Akrotiri for Abu Dhabi and our Det. Whilst we were all busy unloading the aircraft, Captain returns from ops with the "gen". We are to fly to DG, collect a submarine Captain and return him to Riyadh for a briefing. No probs skipper (we all thought) a nights sleep and we will be fit to go. No chance, the Captain pitched in with the unloading, Albert (XV205) received 62,900 lbs of go juice and off we went (flat floors). On landing at DG, a speedy refuel, on load the Sub Skipper and off we set. By now the two GE hammocks were being used on a hot bed basis, we did rig some seats but our hammocks were favoured. Meanwhile, I got to operate the galley, and sit a few hours on radio watch in the Co pilots seat, with the Captain. When we arrived at Riyadh, we were told that we could bed down on the aircraft, we were not to leave the airfield and should be ready to move at short notice, back to DG.
It transpired that the Sub involved in this had been tasked with a recce of the Kuwait beaches, they were thinking of a seaborne invasion at that point. Our bringing her Captain to Riyadh allowed a full briefing before his mission.
We got around 8 hours sleep on the aircraft at Riyadh, at that point I could have slept on the point of a dagger, and at least it wasn't vibrating as it usually did. When the Sub Captain returned, we headed back to DG and 14 hours on the ground. We were invited aboard the sub, and enjoyed a couple of beers in the wardroom. We slept like logs that night and headed back to Abu Dhabi next day. I'm sure, there are plenty of ex Hercules crew who can approximate the working/flying hours to the point of our arrival back at Abu Dhabi. Luckily, as I recall it coincided with early afternoon local time. All I heard, loud and clear was "0700 local start in the morning lads" from our Captain, some HALO lifts before starting the LL infil/exfil stuff. Sorry for the long post, it was probably the busiest three days in my life, but it does show how Albert Airways could accommodate service exigencies.
NB. I posted this tale on another thread some months ago. It included an incident that occurred during the trip which I have decided needs leaving out in these circumstances. About twenty minutes after I posted it, I had a PM from a "chap" asking me to remove it forthwith, "it might reflect badly on the aircrew", though I had offered no ID on any of my fellow participants. I removed it and heard no more. I hope that if he is reading this now, he is not preparing yet another "request to remove". What happened at the start of that detachment was bloody hard work, to keep everyone safe took some planning, and, whilst a long stint, at the start of our Det to Abu Dhabi, we really were a crew.
Smudge
It transpired that the Sub involved in this had been tasked with a recce of the Kuwait beaches, they were thinking of a seaborne invasion at that point. Our bringing her Captain to Riyadh allowed a full briefing before his mission.
We got around 8 hours sleep on the aircraft at Riyadh, at that point I could have slept on the point of a dagger, and at least it wasn't vibrating as it usually did. When the Sub Captain returned, we headed back to DG and 14 hours on the ground. We were invited aboard the sub, and enjoyed a couple of beers in the wardroom. We slept like logs that night and headed back to Abu Dhabi next day. I'm sure, there are plenty of ex Hercules crew who can approximate the working/flying hours to the point of our arrival back at Abu Dhabi. Luckily, as I recall it coincided with early afternoon local time. All I heard, loud and clear was "0700 local start in the morning lads" from our Captain, some HALO lifts before starting the LL infil/exfil stuff. Sorry for the long post, it was probably the busiest three days in my life, but it does show how Albert Airways could accommodate service exigencies.
NB. I posted this tale on another thread some months ago. It included an incident that occurred during the trip which I have decided needs leaving out in these circumstances. About twenty minutes after I posted it, I had a PM from a "chap" asking me to remove it forthwith, "it might reflect badly on the aircrew", though I had offered no ID on any of my fellow participants. I removed it and heard no more. I hope that if he is reading this now, he is not preparing yet another "request to remove". What happened at the start of that detachment was bloody hard work, to keep everyone safe took some planning, and, whilst a long stint, at the start of our Det to Abu Dhabi, we really were a crew.
Smudge
smudge,
my two trips to DG were rather more routine than yours. First time in the long WW2 wooden huts. Second time in air con blocks after the makeover. Pics taken on the second visit.
We were tasked to pick up some SBS chaps from Halim in Indonesia where they had been on exercise. The routing was:
Lyn-Bahrein-Seeb (RTB, fuel leak the log book says)-Bahrein (frame change)-Colombo-Paya Lebar-Halim-DG-Nairobi-Luxor-Palermo-Lyn.
The cunning plan was for the SBS hve built up the pallets with their kit for a QTR at Halim. We get to Halim in the dark and in the rain. Very hot and humid.
They have built up the pallets alright except that every pallet is upside down !
I am screening a new (lady) ALM so while she does the trim the SBS and I sort it all out and off we go. I warn the captain that the weight of the cargo may not be quite as manifested, but everything is OK.
Just past the crit point for diverting to The Seychelles we have a problem with the number two engine so on we go to DG for five nights whilst the problem is sorted.
In the BX they have all kinds of goodies including the headgear you see below.
We just could not resist it !
my two trips to DG were rather more routine than yours. First time in the long WW2 wooden huts. Second time in air con blocks after the makeover. Pics taken on the second visit.
We were tasked to pick up some SBS chaps from Halim in Indonesia where they had been on exercise. The routing was:
Lyn-Bahrein-Seeb (RTB, fuel leak the log book says)-Bahrein (frame change)-Colombo-Paya Lebar-Halim-DG-Nairobi-Luxor-Palermo-Lyn.
The cunning plan was for the SBS hve built up the pallets with their kit for a QTR at Halim. We get to Halim in the dark and in the rain. Very hot and humid.
They have built up the pallets alright except that every pallet is upside down !
I am screening a new (lady) ALM so while she does the trim the SBS and I sort it all out and off we go. I warn the captain that the weight of the cargo may not be quite as manifested, but everything is OK.
Just past the crit point for diverting to The Seychelles we have a problem with the number two engine so on we go to DG for five nights whilst the problem is sorted.
In the BX they have all kinds of goodies including the headgear you see below.
We just could not resist it !
AA62, Goldilocks and the five bears. I'm sure Her Majesties Royal Marines would be proud of your headware. Interesting that the young lady must have been one of our first "lady Loadies", certainly before my time. Izzy was the dominant lady in my day. Nice pic though, and epitomises the crew ethic I mentioned. Keep em coming, I'm still searching for my Nav bag !!!!!
Smudge
Smudge