Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
Smudge,
were we at risk in the same way as the Canadians in my previous post ?
were we at risk in the same way as the Canadians in my previous post ?
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Phew! Finally worked my way to the end of this saga on Fat Albert so can now comment...fascinating.
I joined via No 1 course at Thorney, did a tour on 48 in Changi, back to the OCU to instruct (the blind leading the near blind) thence to Lyneham to work in TFS (known to some as "That's Saturday f****d"). I see there are photos in the thread of the dreaded Jatfor that I was involved with.
I had just been moved into Wing when the great chop started and I went off to Farnborough.
I think for all my time the aircraft it was still in the s**t and sawdust paint scheme and without either the extension fitted or that big nozzle thing on the roof.
Not for me the South Atlantic or all the fantastic jobs the later guys (and girls!) did. It embarasses me that most of the things I did were more in the nature of swanning round the world at no expense to the individual. I still attend service functions and am one of the few without any form of medal.
However, I still had a great time and must now dig out some slides that I took of the early days.
Lou
I joined via No 1 course at Thorney, did a tour on 48 in Changi, back to the OCU to instruct (the blind leading the near blind) thence to Lyneham to work in TFS (known to some as "That's Saturday f****d"). I see there are photos in the thread of the dreaded Jatfor that I was involved with.
I had just been moved into Wing when the great chop started and I went off to Farnborough.
I think for all my time the aircraft it was still in the s**t and sawdust paint scheme and without either the extension fitted or that big nozzle thing on the roof.
Not for me the South Atlantic or all the fantastic jobs the later guys (and girls!) did. It embarasses me that most of the things I did were more in the nature of swanning round the world at no expense to the individual. I still attend service functions and am one of the few without any form of medal.
However, I still had a great time and must now dig out some slides that I took of the early days.
Lou
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Hello and welcome Lou ...
I'm sure we'd all love to see some of your early photos ... If you need help posting pics drop me a PM with your eMail address and I'll gladly help if needed.
Best ...
Coff.
I'm sure we'd all love to see some of your early photos ... If you need help posting pics drop me a PM with your eMail address and I'll gladly help if needed.
Best ...
Coff.
I think I can help smuj to answer were we having the same problems as the Canadians, no we were not, I as an electrician took great care to ensure there were no signs of chaffing on cables and if we did find any it was a fleet wide check to ensure nothing else was amiss.
Fergineer,
thank you for your very reassuring reply. The thought of that very high pressure flame erupting in the cargo compartment gives me the shivers.
thank you for your very reassuring reply. The thought of that very high pressure flame erupting in the cargo compartment gives me the shivers.
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Scottac
Whilst on a low level transit to Lossiemouth with a small detachment it became more turbulent as we approached the Lake District. Unperturbed and clocking no adverse "G"counts we pressed on but elected to fly up the A9 rather than pick our way through the Highlands. It was still quite bumpy and the Loadie reported that a fine mist of what appeared to be hydraulic fluid was visible in the booster pack area. A common sense module kicked in and the rest of the trip was completed at medium level. There were no sources of ignition down the back to worry about but when wiping the fluid off the car we were carrying it was amazing what effect it had on the paintwork.
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Does anyone know if our good friend Smudge is OK ... I've not seen his 'Green' for a little while ... He is usually a regular on here ... Hoping everything is OK
Coff,
Thanks for your concern sir, there's life in the old dog yet (as they bark) ! Been a bit diverted with a few probs recently, but not related to this thread. AA62, apologise for failing to answer, same probs I'm afraid, though Fergineer has covered it nicely, thanks Fergi ! I hope all you regulars are in good form, from recent posts it seems there's still some areas to be discussed. I have a question for those who go back, way back on the K fleet. I well remember at Colerne 1971/73 working alongside Marshalls of Cambridge blokes, who seemed to be doing all the structural repair work as we carried out the Base 3 servicings. As I ended my time with Albert, Marshalls featured heavily in our pushing Albert through minor servicings in AES (Imagine, my first job in the RAF was a brand new, ex Halton appo on Albert, my last, the team chief doing the same work). I'm sure that all of us involved with Albert were also aware of the input of the Marshalls chaps. Anyone know why Marshalls got so involved, and, any interesting stories ? Here's a start. They had a guy at Colerne circa 1972 called Dave Stern, he was a big lad, very big. His huge beard, beer belly and sockless sandals meant he was automatically labelled the "Jesus freak". To my knowledge he never had a religious bone in his body, the beard coming from having served with the RN. He spent most of the daylight hours sleeping in our tool stores, thus enabling him to take his place on the night shift (as overtime) and seemed happy in his work. I know the Marshalls lads did some great work to keep Albert going, and their efforts should be acknowledged in the long story in RAF service. I declare no conflict of interest with MOC, they never paid me a penny !
Smudge
Thanks for your concern sir, there's life in the old dog yet (as they bark) ! Been a bit diverted with a few probs recently, but not related to this thread. AA62, apologise for failing to answer, same probs I'm afraid, though Fergineer has covered it nicely, thanks Fergi ! I hope all you regulars are in good form, from recent posts it seems there's still some areas to be discussed. I have a question for those who go back, way back on the K fleet. I well remember at Colerne 1971/73 working alongside Marshalls of Cambridge blokes, who seemed to be doing all the structural repair work as we carried out the Base 3 servicings. As I ended my time with Albert, Marshalls featured heavily in our pushing Albert through minor servicings in AES (Imagine, my first job in the RAF was a brand new, ex Halton appo on Albert, my last, the team chief doing the same work). I'm sure that all of us involved with Albert were also aware of the input of the Marshalls chaps. Anyone know why Marshalls got so involved, and, any interesting stories ? Here's a start. They had a guy at Colerne circa 1972 called Dave Stern, he was a big lad, very big. His huge beard, beer belly and sockless sandals meant he was automatically labelled the "Jesus freak". To my knowledge he never had a religious bone in his body, the beard coming from having served with the RN. He spent most of the daylight hours sleeping in our tool stores, thus enabling him to take his place on the night shift (as overtime) and seemed happy in his work. I know the Marshalls lads did some great work to keep Albert going, and their efforts should be acknowledged in the long story in RAF service. I declare no conflict of interest with MOC, they never paid me a penny !
Smudge
Smudge,
no apology needed and welcome back.
no apology needed and welcome back.
Thanks Gentlemen,
Now, having woken me up I wonder if anyone (Dougie) can tell me if the Loran Nav system was ever really used by Navigators in a serious way, or whether it was more something to keep the GE away from the bar ? From memory, we had a Doppler, Loran and the Omega fitted as standard in the days when Dougie and myself visited the antipodes 8 October 1994 and beyond. I always had the impression that Loran was a hangover from the days of sails and rigging, especially with those whacky charts etc. Many a Nav snagged Loran during my time as a GE, yet we never got lost as a result of its failure. I especially remember a four hour stint at Gatow replacing boxes and trying to ascertain the serviceability of the system, what a bloody waste, Mon Cheri beckoned !!!!! I would be the first to suggest that the quality of our Navigators far outweighed the need for Loran, but did I need those hours at the airfield fixing it ? I doubt I ever actually fixed one anyway.
Meanwhile, on a trip mid way between ASI and MPA our Captain ;
Was celebrating his Birthday. Note the Birthday cards on the coaming. Loran must certainly have been used for those long overwater legs from back them ?
Now, having woken me up I wonder if anyone (Dougie) can tell me if the Loran Nav system was ever really used by Navigators in a serious way, or whether it was more something to keep the GE away from the bar ? From memory, we had a Doppler, Loran and the Omega fitted as standard in the days when Dougie and myself visited the antipodes 8 October 1994 and beyond. I always had the impression that Loran was a hangover from the days of sails and rigging, especially with those whacky charts etc. Many a Nav snagged Loran during my time as a GE, yet we never got lost as a result of its failure. I especially remember a four hour stint at Gatow replacing boxes and trying to ascertain the serviceability of the system, what a bloody waste, Mon Cheri beckoned !!!!! I would be the first to suggest that the quality of our Navigators far outweighed the need for Loran, but did I need those hours at the airfield fixing it ? I doubt I ever actually fixed one anyway.
Meanwhile, on a trip mid way between ASI and MPA our Captain ;
Was celebrating his Birthday. Note the Birthday cards on the coaming. Loran must certainly have been used for those long overwater legs from back them ?
Last edited by smujsmith; 18th Apr 2016 at 18:53.
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Loran
Hi there Smudge. Welcome back
Loran had its uses and Gatow was not a place where it was used. When beyond VOR and TACAN range on the way across the ocean, especially the North Atlantic it was the only long range aid we had in years gone by. You had to remain within 10 miles of track which was not easy at the edge of cover in skywave and if you went 25 miles off track you had to regain ASAP. Over 45 miles and you needed permission to proceed and severe digging when you got back. If you understood the kit it was good. I have seen Navs cock up chain changes in mid ocean and one spectacular event with a lady Nav who lost ALL the signals. I don't remember snagging the kit and I never used it to go to Germany. There was no LORAN cover in the South Atlantic. There was Astro and Omega and Litton INS.
Loran had its uses and Gatow was not a place where it was used. When beyond VOR and TACAN range on the way across the ocean, especially the North Atlantic it was the only long range aid we had in years gone by. You had to remain within 10 miles of track which was not easy at the edge of cover in skywave and if you went 25 miles off track you had to regain ASAP. Over 45 miles and you needed permission to proceed and severe digging when you got back. If you understood the kit it was good. I have seen Navs cock up chain changes in mid ocean and one spectacular event with a lady Nav who lost ALL the signals. I don't remember snagging the kit and I never used it to go to Germany. There was no LORAN cover in the South Atlantic. There was Astro and Omega and Litton INS.
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Smuj,
Given that the Doppler used to run off at high speed over a smooth sea and that we could never get high enough to be above cloud for a decent sun shot, I was always grateful fur as much long distance nav kit that you could provide!
Still amazes me, in this age of gps on phones, that as little as a quarter of a century ago that the likes of Dougie were still doing sun shots!
Given that the Doppler used to run off at high speed over a smooth sea and that we could never get high enough to be above cloud for a decent sun shot, I was always grateful fur as much long distance nav kit that you could provide!
Still amazes me, in this age of gps on phones, that as little as a quarter of a century ago that the likes of Dougie were still doing sun shots!
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Just a quick technical question if I may ...
Was the RAF Herc K ever fitted with Omega Nav ... The last of the Hyperbolic Nav Kit prior to the arrival of GPS
Just interested ...
Was the RAF Herc K ever fitted with Omega Nav ... The last of the Hyperbolic Nav Kit prior to the arrival of GPS
Just interested ...
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Coffman,
When I started on the fleet, in 1986, it had Doppler, Omega, Loran, twin VOR, Twin Tacan and ADF and navigators were still regularly doing star/sun shots. Single IRS arrived in the early 90s and GPS was voodoo magic that arrived some time later.
When I started on the fleet, in 1986, it had Doppler, Omega, Loran, twin VOR, Twin Tacan and ADF and navigators were still regularly doing star/sun shots. Single IRS arrived in the early 90s and GPS was voodoo magic that arrived some time later.
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The Kit
Hi Don.
I was on the sortie but not with H. My twin R*n C*****s was tho and came back quite white. The student Eng had not operated flaps with speed so a steep approach to the Welsh countryside ensued.
Coff. The kit all had uses but also had limitations., mostly interpretation. Decca was a pig along a base line and you could hardly see the needles they were spinning so fast. Omega needed good cover and heading south the position lines were nearly all along track and only one weedy cross track signal. Some Navs used to discard weak signals and that mostly took out your fixing line. Loran was OK in the North Atlantic and North Pacific but in the South Atlantic there was only astro 3 star fixing to start. Half the sky was blanked by the refuelling probe, the VHF aerial and the Cupola. I have asked a captain to steer off heading till I could see the star I was looking for. Happy days.
I was on the sortie but not with H. My twin R*n C*****s was tho and came back quite white. The student Eng had not operated flaps with speed so a steep approach to the Welsh countryside ensued.
Coff. The kit all had uses but also had limitations., mostly interpretation. Decca was a pig along a base line and you could hardly see the needles they were spinning so fast. Omega needed good cover and heading south the position lines were nearly all along track and only one weedy cross track signal. Some Navs used to discard weak signals and that mostly took out your fixing line. Loran was OK in the North Atlantic and North Pacific but in the South Atlantic there was only astro 3 star fixing to start. Half the sky was blanked by the refuelling probe, the VHF aerial and the Cupola. I have asked a captain to steer off heading till I could see the star I was looking for. Happy days.
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Dougie,
I had forgotten about the Decca, it was no longer used, when I joined the fleet, other than the instruments were used to fill he holes that would have been there if they took it off the aircraft.
I couldn't remember if it was you or R.n, I was the student captain stood behind H...y when it happened. A very subdued flight back to base!
I had forgotten about the Decca, it was no longer used, when I joined the fleet, other than the instruments were used to fill he holes that would have been there if they took it off the aircraft.
I couldn't remember if it was you or R.n, I was the student captain stood behind H...y when it happened. A very subdued flight back to base!
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Thanks Doug ... Simply fascinating ... Modern Day kit takes all the fun out of Navigation in my book
Decca Moving Map ... I think the Herc was so equipped (but I can't find the pic we had some time back on the thread) ...
Decca Moving Map ... I think the Herc was so equipped (but I can't find the pic we had some time back on the thread) ...