Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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Smudge
The photo we mentioned showing the entry point of the AK47 round. Look about 1ft aft of the figure 1 on the frame number. I know I know not that exciting on this occasion but.........
The photo we mentioned showing the entry point of the AK47 round. Look about 1ft aft of the figure 1 on the frame number. I know I know not that exciting on this occasion but.........
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Lots of comments on this thread from/about GEs. When did Herks start flying down the route with GEs? Dont remember carrying them when I left LA in 69 - or is this another sign of my ever increasing memory loss??
Upgently,
I see the hit on the frame, and for me there was never a small arms hit that didn't pose a threat. Good picture. Not sure if you know the personnel involved in the photo, but I rather suspect that the chap on the left is a GE called Eddie Botham, who was the Flt Sgt i/c Ground Engineers in my day. Thanks for showing us this one.
Nimbev,
Interesting question that one. As an ex AGE, I'm not sure when they first started, or who the first few were. I hope though that their use has been beneficial on routes.
Smudge
I see the hit on the frame, and for me there was never a small arms hit that didn't pose a threat. Good picture. Not sure if you know the personnel involved in the photo, but I rather suspect that the chap on the left is a GE called Eddie Botham, who was the Flt Sgt i/c Ground Engineers in my day. Thanks for showing us this one.
Nimbev,
Interesting question that one. As an ex AGE, I'm not sure when they first started, or who the first few were. I hope though that their use has been beneficial on routes.
Smudge
nimbey,
we did not have G/E's when I was at Fairford nor when I was on 48 in FEAF. When they were first introduced I do not know, but it would probably link up with the introduction of the Direct Entry Air Engineer. Previously you had to be at least a J/T in the airframe, engine, instrument or electrics trade.
Which is why as an Air Radar Fitter I could not be an Air Eng . So not being comissionable (at the time) I was selected for Air Signaller. However before I could start the course they suspended training whilst they 'reviewed the requirement'. Best thing that ever happened as far as I was concerned !
we did not have G/E's when I was at Fairford nor when I was on 48 in FEAF. When they were first introduced I do not know, but it would probably link up with the introduction of the Direct Entry Air Engineer. Previously you had to be at least a J/T in the airframe, engine, instrument or electrics trade.
Which is why as an Air Radar Fitter I could not be an Air Eng . So not being comissionable (at the time) I was selected for Air Signaller. However before I could start the course they suspended training whilst they 'reviewed the requirement'. Best thing that ever happened as far as I was concerned !
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C-130 thread
Here's one for a trip down memory lane for those of us Ex 48 Changi.
48 Sqn bottom right, the NZ Air force Bristol Freighter Pan centre right, and of course the Shack Sqn, 205,or 206, I forget.
48 Sqn bottom right, the NZ Air force Bristol Freighter Pan centre right, and of course the Shack Sqn, 205,or 206, I forget.
upgently,
Well as you are not Eddie Botham and assuming you are not GF then you must be one of the others ! Perhaps if you wish to remain anonymous then you could PM me. and we could compare notes. Anyone who has read my input to threads various could easily ID me I think. Cracking pics !
If anyone in the future writes the complete history of the 'K' they could do no better than to look at this expanding thread for pics and true tales.
Now where is Brian the Nav ?
Well as you are not Eddie Botham and assuming you are not GF then you must be one of the others ! Perhaps if you wish to remain anonymous then you could PM me. and we could compare notes. Anyone who has read my input to threads various could easily ID me I think. Cracking pics !
If anyone in the future writes the complete history of the 'K' they could do no better than to look at this expanding thread for pics and true tales.
Now where is Brian the Nav ?
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Upgently ...
I use PhotoBucket to host my pics which has a convenient "Mirror Flip" tool as part of it's on-line editing suite. But there are a number of free graphic tools for either PC or Mac to do this kind of stuff off-line. 500N is a TinyPic Host user so he might be able to give you a steer on their editing tools
Best ...
Coff.
I use PhotoBucket to host my pics which has a convenient "Mirror Flip" tool as part of it's on-line editing suite. But there are a number of free graphic tools for either PC or Mac to do this kind of stuff off-line. 500N is a TinyPic Host user so he might be able to give you a steer on their editing tools
Best ...
Coff.
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upgently
Most image viewing programs (or Photoshop) on your computer have a rotate right or left or
flip horizontal or flip vertical commands in the menu that allow you to do this.
Am looking at tinypic now to see if it can be done within it.
Edit
Can't see anything in tinypic that will allow it to be done.
Most image viewing programs (or Photoshop) on your computer have a rotate right or left or
flip horizontal or flip vertical commands in the menu that allow you to do this.
Am looking at tinypic now to see if it can be done within it.
Edit
Can't see anything in tinypic that will allow it to be done.
On the subject of Ground Engineers
Nimbev, Ancientaviator,
I wonder if the introduction of the GE coincided with the adoption of crew duty hours for the AT fleet. In the days when the Air Eng, plus crew, could fly a Hastings to Aden, change an engine and do the test runs, and have about 5 hours sleep before charging off to the next port of call, the need for dedicated Groundcrew was limited, and anyway, most transient aircraft stops had people who could help. In my day, the whole of the operating crew were subject to crew duty hours, which meant that a delay at the aircraft to help with aircraft servicing could lead to delayed take off the next day. I'm not too sure about trade qualifications prior to mustering as a Flt Engineer, I personally believe that most of them were pretty well grounded in the systems and how to fix them.
I do remember operation "motorman" when I was a Jnr Tech Airframes at Colerne in the early 70s. When a gang of around 20 of us were sent to augment the Visiting Aircraft team at Aldergrove as the troops and rubber bullets arrived. In my day as a GE, such an operation would have been covered by one or two GEs, going in with the first chalk and recovering on the last. Perhaps more efficient. I do know that GEs were always made to feel part of the team when away from base, although, no doubt some aircrew looked on us as "hangers on". On that basis, some of our former ground single trade colleagues resented our turning up in December with a suntan. Who can blame someone though for taking up a challenge ? To be a C130 Aircraft Ground Engineer required passing all four trade courses on the aircraft, plus a bit in 6 months. Being involved in the progression if the route with the professional operators from the Aircrew side. It was a busy time, and the one statistic I remember from my time (88- 95) was that we had an establishment of 32 AGEs, the flying squadrons had the equivalent of 120 constituted crews. About a 4:1 ratio. My average time away in that period was around 275 days a year, and I logged over 5000 hours of "Air experience". I'm biased, obviously, but I reckon the introduction of the Ground Engineer was a positive move on the AT fleet. Certainly the C130K was a real bonus to the RAF, in its day. I suspect though that it was people who made it work from Captain to mess steward.
A couple of GE down route shots, apologies to former GEs in arms, but we did get some days off.
A certain GE in Egypt (No not me, I took the photo). The first GE I ever met who could honestly say he had experience of Camels
(unfortunately not Mr Sopwiths). I'm sure some wit will ask who is riding him
A day off in Malaysia, and three of us were there at the same time. A rarity.
Sorry for the long post, it's obviously a bit of an interest. I'm hoping I can find some more shots of Albert, always the star.
Smudge
I wonder if the introduction of the GE coincided with the adoption of crew duty hours for the AT fleet. In the days when the Air Eng, plus crew, could fly a Hastings to Aden, change an engine and do the test runs, and have about 5 hours sleep before charging off to the next port of call, the need for dedicated Groundcrew was limited, and anyway, most transient aircraft stops had people who could help. In my day, the whole of the operating crew were subject to crew duty hours, which meant that a delay at the aircraft to help with aircraft servicing could lead to delayed take off the next day. I'm not too sure about trade qualifications prior to mustering as a Flt Engineer, I personally believe that most of them were pretty well grounded in the systems and how to fix them.
I do remember operation "motorman" when I was a Jnr Tech Airframes at Colerne in the early 70s. When a gang of around 20 of us were sent to augment the Visiting Aircraft team at Aldergrove as the troops and rubber bullets arrived. In my day as a GE, such an operation would have been covered by one or two GEs, going in with the first chalk and recovering on the last. Perhaps more efficient. I do know that GEs were always made to feel part of the team when away from base, although, no doubt some aircrew looked on us as "hangers on". On that basis, some of our former ground single trade colleagues resented our turning up in December with a suntan. Who can blame someone though for taking up a challenge ? To be a C130 Aircraft Ground Engineer required passing all four trade courses on the aircraft, plus a bit in 6 months. Being involved in the progression if the route with the professional operators from the Aircrew side. It was a busy time, and the one statistic I remember from my time (88- 95) was that we had an establishment of 32 AGEs, the flying squadrons had the equivalent of 120 constituted crews. About a 4:1 ratio. My average time away in that period was around 275 days a year, and I logged over 5000 hours of "Air experience". I'm biased, obviously, but I reckon the introduction of the Ground Engineer was a positive move on the AT fleet. Certainly the C130K was a real bonus to the RAF, in its day. I suspect though that it was people who made it work from Captain to mess steward.
A couple of GE down route shots, apologies to former GEs in arms, but we did get some days off.
A certain GE in Egypt (No not me, I took the photo). The first GE I ever met who could honestly say he had experience of Camels
(unfortunately not Mr Sopwiths). I'm sure some wit will ask who is riding him
A day off in Malaysia, and three of us were there at the same time. A rarity.
Sorry for the long post, it's obviously a bit of an interest. I'm hoping I can find some more shots of Albert, always the star.
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 1st Jun 2014 at 22:49.
smudge,
I well recall assisting the Air Eng in various servicing tasks down route both on the Hastings and Hercules before the advent of the G/E. My tech background lent me a little credibility in this respect.
I was once doing some research in the files and came across the original service paper which recommended the setting up of the G/E system for the Hercules.
As far as I can recall the original idea was to emulate the Crew Chief system of the V force whereby he would have his 'own' a/c. This proved to be a non starter for several reasons. This next bit will chime with you ref the base chaps resentment. It was suggested that the aircrew reporting of defects would have more credibility if supported by a G/E ! As you will no doubt confirm those at base merely assumed you were always on the side of the aircrew.
I well recall assisting the Air Eng in various servicing tasks down route both on the Hastings and Hercules before the advent of the G/E. My tech background lent me a little credibility in this respect.
I was once doing some research in the files and came across the original service paper which recommended the setting up of the G/E system for the Hercules.
As far as I can recall the original idea was to emulate the Crew Chief system of the V force whereby he would have his 'own' a/c. This proved to be a non starter for several reasons. This next bit will chime with you ref the base chaps resentment. It was suggested that the aircrew reporting of defects would have more credibility if supported by a G/E ! As you will no doubt confirm those at base merely assumed you were always on the side of the aircrew.
Ancientaviator,
Spot on on the Line reaction to our looking like yes men for the aircrew. Another gripe was when we managed to get one home safely, that required a bit of work, many is the prop we have nursed home, rather than call for a prop change down route. I think you are probably correct about emulating the V force crew chiefs, and lets not forget the Maritime fleet (Nimrods anyway) also operated the crew chief system. I wondered also if carrying a competent SNCO in all trades of the aircraft became necessary as a result of the closure of many bases around the world, often used by AT. There was a discussion on another thread about the old Hastings route out to Sri Lanka, I think it was. In the days of the Hastings the RAF enjoyed bases all the way along the route, with relevant AT support. In my day, on the Herk, a trip leaving for Sri Lanka and points East, on a Sunday would probably night stop Cairo International, a fuel stop at Bahrain and on to Columbo. All now civilian Airports, with no direct RAF engineering ground support. Whatever, I only once met a Pilot who resented the presence of GEs, his problem being that whenever he broke his aircraft, the GE didn't carry the relevant part. I remember pointing out that to accommodate his desire a second Herk would have to follow with the spares. As an aside, and from blokes I know, it appears that since the advent of the J, the workload of the GE has increased and most do not get the luxury of taking to the hammock when away from base. What they do in flight is a mystery, and perhaps someone could elucidate, or is my source, a current GE, just going for bragging rights
I'm sure there must be some more great pictures out there in this celebration of Albert. And surely some memorable moments, operated by so many people.
Smudge
Spot on on the Line reaction to our looking like yes men for the aircrew. Another gripe was when we managed to get one home safely, that required a bit of work, many is the prop we have nursed home, rather than call for a prop change down route. I think you are probably correct about emulating the V force crew chiefs, and lets not forget the Maritime fleet (Nimrods anyway) also operated the crew chief system. I wondered also if carrying a competent SNCO in all trades of the aircraft became necessary as a result of the closure of many bases around the world, often used by AT. There was a discussion on another thread about the old Hastings route out to Sri Lanka, I think it was. In the days of the Hastings the RAF enjoyed bases all the way along the route, with relevant AT support. In my day, on the Herk, a trip leaving for Sri Lanka and points East, on a Sunday would probably night stop Cairo International, a fuel stop at Bahrain and on to Columbo. All now civilian Airports, with no direct RAF engineering ground support. Whatever, I only once met a Pilot who resented the presence of GEs, his problem being that whenever he broke his aircraft, the GE didn't carry the relevant part. I remember pointing out that to accommodate his desire a second Herk would have to follow with the spares. As an aside, and from blokes I know, it appears that since the advent of the J, the workload of the GE has increased and most do not get the luxury of taking to the hammock when away from base. What they do in flight is a mystery, and perhaps someone could elucidate, or is my source, a current GE, just going for bragging rights
I'm sure there must be some more great pictures out there in this celebration of Albert. And surely some memorable moments, operated by so many people.
Smudge