The future of fitness testing.
It is a strange mixture. On the one hand, we have guidance that different members of "the team" have different strengths and it it is up to managers to get the best out of their team (pulling the weak along). On the other hand, we are told everyone is to be super-fit or you are out.
That is the caution I note. Not everyone remains employable due to injury and ageing. Will YOU remain employable to age 60 or, will you be booted out when you can't make level 9 anymore?
OAP
That is the caution I note. Not everyone remains employable due to injury and ageing. Will YOU remain employable to age 60 or, will you be booted out when you can't make level 9 anymore?OAP
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I'm amazed that the RAF managed to get along for 70-odd years before fitness testing came in!
It proves very little; those that enjoy phys get a kick out of showing people how fit they are, those that don't enjoy it endure the chore of maintaining a level of fitness that doesn't actually improve their effectiveness or efficiency.
It's become an empire that is increasing stress levels on large numbers of people, with little real benefit. It is held up as the RAF being concerned about your long term health, this is the same RAF that has little concern for your long term employment!
It proves very little; those that enjoy phys get a kick out of showing people how fit they are, those that don't enjoy it endure the chore of maintaining a level of fitness that doesn't actually improve their effectiveness or efficiency.
It's become an empire that is increasing stress levels on large numbers of people, with little real benefit. It is held up as the RAF being concerned about your long term health, this is the same RAF that has little concern for your long term employment!
I had never failed an RAF FT until, at the age of 52, I was directed by the doc to do the bike test due to osteoarthritic knees. Part way through the test, the muscle mechanic told me to stop (even though I felt fine and was happy to continue) as my heart rate was too high and it would be ‘unsafe’ for me to continue. When I enquired what precautions were taken during my previous beep test sessions to ensure my heart rate remained within ‘safe’ levels, he was unable to answer.
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At least the police have a non-ageist and non-sexist test. Why in the military should the youngest female age bracket only be tested to the level of the oldest male bracket? Would the Taliban not run as hard when chasing a female or an older person? There should one level for all to attain but the option for your maximum effort to be recorded.
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It's become an empire that is increasing stress levels on large numbers of people, with little real benefit. It is held up as the RAF being concerned about your long term health, this is the same RAF that has little concern for your long term employment!
If they were really that interested in my health, they would have enough people to do the job. The only reason we have a fitness test is to justify the ped flight.
It's become an empire that is increasing stress levels on large numbers of people
At the end of the day, I guess it's a mentality thing; but if we suddenly had a box on the OJAR / SJAR that you had to tick to say you were in date fit test and that was a qualifier for being read by the Board, a lot more people would suddenly take an interest in their health and careers.
Edited to add - the difference between those fit & unfit types does remind me of that old joke about 2 guys in a wood ambushed by a bear. The first guy stops to put his trainers on and the second says you aren't going to out run it, to which the first replies I know, but I only have to out run you. Swap woods for being on ops and swap the bear for the enemy - now going on ops with fatties suddenly seems attractive on some levels
Why should the RAF be interested about peoples long term health?
From a purely "bean counters" point of view, once you leave you become nothing more than a financial burden (assuming you have qualified for a pension, or even part pension). RAF pensions are funded from the MOD budget, not from general government funding. To a certain extent, the shorter your life span after leaving the RAF, the more money the RAF saves!
The same applies to the UK government as a whole, although the cost arguments on money saved by citizens life expectancy reducing (in terms of saving on pensions) vs increased costs incurred by the NHS having to deal with an unhealthy population is not one I am familiar with - although no doubt someone in the treasury has done/does this calculation on a regular basis.
Smoking is a similar situation. I believe (standing by to be corrected) that the taxes raised on smokers outweigh the financial cost to the UK economy of smoking related illnesses. Hence why the politicians haven't just banned it outright.
From a purely "bean counters" point of view, once you leave you become nothing more than a financial burden (assuming you have qualified for a pension, or even part pension). RAF pensions are funded from the MOD budget, not from general government funding. To a certain extent, the shorter your life span after leaving the RAF, the more money the RAF saves!
The same applies to the UK government as a whole, although the cost arguments on money saved by citizens life expectancy reducing (in terms of saving on pensions) vs increased costs incurred by the NHS having to deal with an unhealthy population is not one I am familiar with - although no doubt someone in the treasury has done/does this calculation on a regular basis.
Smoking is a similar situation. I believe (standing by to be corrected) that the taxes raised on smokers outweigh the financial cost to the UK economy of smoking related illnesses. Hence why the politicians haven't just banned it outright.
As I understand it Melchy, you must be fit or, undergoing (limited) remedial or, exempted or you are out! Therefore, I do not follow your comment on a promotion tick-box as everyone is compliant.
However, I do agree that a structured system of fitness levels for "the job" would be a way forward and, that would be finite levels, regardless of gender.
The present system smacks of empire building and manipulation of personel. As for lifestyle choice well, I think "choice" (within the service requirements) is the word here.
Cheers
OAP
However, I do agree that a structured system of fitness levels for "the job" would be a way forward and, that would be finite levels, regardless of gender. The present system smacks of empire building and manipulation of personel. As for lifestyle choice well, I think "choice" (within the service requirements) is the word here.Cheers
OAP
The problem I had was some of the exemptions. If someone fits the description so well used by TTN above, the I fail to see why they shouldn't be told to do one. The other argument that seems to do the rounds is that of gender fair or gender neutral. All went quiet when (at an EO meeting) I suggested that war/ops are not gender fair so the only reasonable test was a gender neutral one. Alcock vs the Chief Constable of Hampshire springs to mind!
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OAP,
Blue for the past 7 years and MFD - I think that helped minimize the effect of 2 serious skiing crashes over the same period.
And as for the 'check box' it would sort out the properly sick and lame who need medical assistance to get back to full fitness from the frankly bone idle and lazy who can't be bothered to meet minimum Service requirements. Call it carrot / stick.
Blue for the past 7 years and MFD - I think that helped minimize the effect of 2 serious skiing crashes over the same period.
And as for the 'check box' it would sort out the properly sick and lame who need medical assistance to get back to full fitness from the frankly bone idle and lazy who can't be bothered to meet minimum Service requirements. Call it carrot / stick.
Years ago on exchange I had to book a fitness test with my parent unit 2 hours' drive away. The corporal asked me what I did to keep fit and I said that I played rugby for a local team. Turns out he played too and our stations met in the RAF cup the year before. "I was the skinny bugger on the right wing," I said. "Ah yes, I remember you," he said. "Well if you can do that, you can pass your fitness test. Don't bother coming down I'll sign you off!" No sign of empire building there and a good helping of common sense!
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It ain't hard...
Bit of self respect, shed loads of realisation on the part of the individual that they are in the Bosses Armed Forces and don't work for Tesco et al... Oh and a wish not to look like a sack of potatoes while wearing the uniform.
Go for a wee jog every day, anything between 2 to 4 miles, if that starts to get boring then use lamp posts to liven it up and do a quick sprint followed by a steady jog between them or you could even snap out a quick 10 press ups, burpees or even the gym talibans fav 'bastardos' every other lamp post on a 3 mile circuit you'll soon notice it! An hour a day is all it takes.
As they say, have a jog or some other phys rather than a pie!
They should make the Armys version of training/testing tri-service where possible. The only exception I can see is on board ship, and thats simply through lack of space.
Bit of self respect, shed loads of realisation on the part of the individual that they are in the Bosses Armed Forces and don't work for Tesco et al... Oh and a wish not to look like a sack of potatoes while wearing the uniform.
Go for a wee jog every day, anything between 2 to 4 miles, if that starts to get boring then use lamp posts to liven it up and do a quick sprint followed by a steady jog between them or you could even snap out a quick 10 press ups, burpees or even the gym talibans fav 'bastardos' every other lamp post on a 3 mile circuit you'll soon notice it! An hour a day is all it takes.
As they say, have a jog or some other phys rather than a pie!
They should make the Armys version of training/testing tri-service where possible. The only exception I can see is on board ship, and thats simply through lack of space.
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we are told everyone is to be super-fit or you are out.
Here's an article that shows what professional sportsmen and women can get, even Springbok prop forwards can get to 11.5 Beep Test Score Results
it's interesting to see some clubs have a minimum standard.
If you regularly did cardio... every week... all year round, then level 9 is easy to achieve.
The same employer that sees me and others pull 20-30 hour working days on a regular basis, with all the negative health effects that entails.
Go for a wee jog every day, anything between 2 to 4 miles, if that starts to get boring then
As for getting bored, I combat this by rarely running the same route in succession, I try to run as many varied routes as I can.
RAF pension once you leave
The best quote I heard "You don't see any fat 70 year olds".
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Is is, and always has been, the easiest thing in the world to devise a combined service fitness regime.
1. A common basic entry level fitness standard that everyone must past, regardless of age or sex (obviously with a very low bar)
2. A role specific fitness test which everyone must pass for their specific role (obviously with a very variable bar).
3. A thorough annual medical for all.
Why does this not happen? Partly because of the cost of providing said annual medical and partly because of empire building by the fit brigade and their devotees. You've only got to read between the lines of some of the "we're-jockstrappers-ain't-we-great" posters above, to see where I'm coming from.
PS BTW, TOFO is actually old & fat but I can still shin up a Munro in less than 2 hours (from sea level).
1. A common basic entry level fitness standard that everyone must past, regardless of age or sex (obviously with a very low bar)
2. A role specific fitness test which everyone must pass for their specific role (obviously with a very variable bar).
3. A thorough annual medical for all.
Why does this not happen? Partly because of the cost of providing said annual medical and partly because of empire building by the fit brigade and their devotees. You've only got to read between the lines of some of the "we're-jockstrappers-ain't-we-great" posters above, to see where I'm coming from.
PS BTW, TOFO is actually old & fat but I can still shin up a Munro in less than 2 hours (from sea level).
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I always found it ironic that we are to be fit, yet I've seen some pretty unhealthy food served in messes. Now it's PAYD I have been informed by someone in the know that they are banking on people eating chips and beans, as chips and beans have the lowest cost to the contractor. Eating unhealthy is cheaper. When eating in the mess turned into "hunt for the chicken, in your chicken curry" I stopped going.
Gentleman Aviator
Albeit many years ago, one recalls the Alcohol Abuse lecture on day one of the Flying Supervisors' Course ........... which was swiftly followed by the "Welcome Barrel"!
Last edited by teeteringhead; 16th Feb 2014 at 10:00.
OAP -
SAS ... I assume you're talking the West Country Gun Club and not the Airline? The former no, at 38 I think my days of hanging out of helicopters are over. As for the latter, well I've heard some of the Hosties are rather nice and could be persuaded
Anyway, I digress. I agree with you that in theory everybody has to meet the minimum standards to remain in. However, in over 15 years, I have all too often seen people pulling a fast one to get out of fitness tests, finding all sorts of excuses for failing fitness tests, then failing their re-tests and just before admin action is due to begin they miraculously manage to pull something out of the bag and the clock re-sets, they disappear off to the bar for a pint and the whole cycle starts again.
My current unit is a Joint unit headed up by an Army Lt Col. If people fail a fitness test they are packed off to the MO. If they are found to be fit but lazy, the PTIs get involved and it's a thrashing of a life time; if they don't take it seriously, then admin action begins before they have even had chance to fail a second time. Those that the MO finds a medical issue with are put into rehab. If after 84 days they are still broken and can't pass a fitness test then serious admin action in the form of a PAP 10 starts. Once on the PAP 10 process, it can be a short flash to bang to discharge, either on medical grounds or services no longer required at the one end or to a re-branch / med downgrade at the other end.
What I'm basically getting at is for many, as I suggested in my earlier post, it is a mindset issue. Many are just lazy and can't be bothered to put in the effort to stay fit and pass a fitness test. So yes, there are minimum standards, but are they enforced or are there too many loop holes for individuals to play the system? Individuals aren't fooling anybody other that the system when they pass their fitness test after a year of inactivity and then can be found immediately afterwards throwing up outside the gym fire doors. Level 9 is not particularly difficult to get by any stretch - even at my decrepit age I can still hit 11 and I'm certainly not a 'jockstrapper'. Rather than going to the Mess for a plate of stodge and a snooze at lunchtime, I go for a run instead, it really is that simple. Moderation in everything, including phys - little and often goes a long way.
SAS ... I assume you're talking the West Country Gun Club and not the Airline? The former no, at 38 I think my days of hanging out of helicopters are over. As for the latter, well I've heard some of the Hosties are rather nice and could be persuaded
Anyway, I digress. I agree with you that in theory everybody has to meet the minimum standards to remain in. However, in over 15 years, I have all too often seen people pulling a fast one to get out of fitness tests, finding all sorts of excuses for failing fitness tests, then failing their re-tests and just before admin action is due to begin they miraculously manage to pull something out of the bag and the clock re-sets, they disappear off to the bar for a pint and the whole cycle starts again.
My current unit is a Joint unit headed up by an Army Lt Col. If people fail a fitness test they are packed off to the MO. If they are found to be fit but lazy, the PTIs get involved and it's a thrashing of a life time; if they don't take it seriously, then admin action begins before they have even had chance to fail a second time. Those that the MO finds a medical issue with are put into rehab. If after 84 days they are still broken and can't pass a fitness test then serious admin action in the form of a PAP 10 starts. Once on the PAP 10 process, it can be a short flash to bang to discharge, either on medical grounds or services no longer required at the one end or to a re-branch / med downgrade at the other end.
What I'm basically getting at is for many, as I suggested in my earlier post, it is a mindset issue. Many are just lazy and can't be bothered to put in the effort to stay fit and pass a fitness test. So yes, there are minimum standards, but are they enforced or are there too many loop holes for individuals to play the system? Individuals aren't fooling anybody other that the system when they pass their fitness test after a year of inactivity and then can be found immediately afterwards throwing up outside the gym fire doors. Level 9 is not particularly difficult to get by any stretch - even at my decrepit age I can still hit 11 and I'm certainly not a 'jockstrapper'. Rather than going to the Mess for a plate of stodge and a snooze at lunchtime, I go for a run instead, it really is that simple. Moderation in everything, including phys - little and often goes a long way.
Last edited by Melchett01; 16th Feb 2014 at 12:13.