MPs not holding back - MoD Annual Report.
I would also point out if you want to take the "civvies do it, why can't we" route, there are lots of things that we have, collectively, dripped about (pension, redundancy, time away) that are considerably worse outside. Be careful for what you wish for.
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Tourist, a friend of mine leaves this month; but the only abatement to his 12 months PVR time was a few weeks of terminal leave and unused annual leave. It did knock a significant amount of time off (to the tune of 3 months or so) but if you have any information on how to cut that 12 months to something significantly shorter.... share!
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Unlike HM Forces, the outside world of "civvy business" contains a much larger manpower pool from which to recruit with more scope for incentives, not to mention ease of hiring and firing.
Let's not forget that aircraft engineering/flying etc is done in the civilian world. Commercial ops hire pilots and engineers without the need to have them from year dot. If there are pinch points in the system why not put a short term contract out for personnel to relieve it?
I would also point out if you want to take the "civvies do it, why can't we" route, there are lots of things that we have, collectively, dripped about (pension, redundancy, time away) that are considerably worse outside. Be careful for what you wish for.
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I PVR'd in 2011 with a firm offer of a job in place. My future employer required me to start work within 4 weeks. After speaking to my deskie, he said not a chance and that the waiting time was 6 months (I was FC). After relaying this to my SO1, he then spoke to the same deskie...within 24hrs I was informed that I could exit once all my clearances had been completed (and provided the SO1 was willing to absorb the gap). Needless to say (and with a heavy heart) I left - it took no longer than 2 weeks from the point of pressing the button to walking out the door!!
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I PVR'd in April 2002, did my last day of work in Nov 2002, took up my new job in Nov 2002 and got paid by the RAF (and actually left) in May 2003.
Didn't need anybodies cooperation - just a sound knowledge of QRs, the relevant APs and a very helpful coffee with the Chief Clerk, to get his expert opinion on my exit plan.
Even got to tell the resettlement officer where to stow his hat when he tried to interfere
PS Thing has got a very valid point...but I doubt it will go down to well on here.
Didn't need anybodies cooperation - just a sound knowledge of QRs, the relevant APs and a very helpful coffee with the Chief Clerk, to get his expert opinion on my exit plan.
Even got to tell the resettlement officer where to stow his hat when he tried to interfere
PS Thing has got a very valid point...but I doubt it will go down to well on here.
As a very broad generalization:
People who are still "in" exhibit a certain amount of reticence about leaving, a mixture of some remaining loyalty, not wanting to admit defeat, still enjoying some of the job, unsure what they will do when they leave, risk aversion, etc........
People who have already left wonder what all the fuss is about....
People who are still "in" exhibit a certain amount of reticence about leaving, a mixture of some remaining loyalty, not wanting to admit defeat, still enjoying some of the job, unsure what they will do when they leave, risk aversion, etc........
People who have already left wonder what all the fuss is about....
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Originally Posted by thing
Which was my point back in the thread re being happy to take the pay and pension but not the more onerous side of service life. Having been self employed, partially self employed, and all permutations besides being fully employed I know what it's like out there, because I am out there. I get a bit fed up with people on v. large salaries (for what they do) in the mob whining about this that and the other while nipping off early to go to the gym at lunchtime.
People who are still "in" exhibit a certain amount of reticence about leaving, a mixture of some remaining loyalty, not wanting to admit defeat, still enjoying some of the job, unsure what they will do when they leave, risk aversion, etc........
Things I don't like? (See, I warned you)
Massive reduction of GYH travel for those who are INVOLSEP; massive reduction in London Weighting (per se), near-criminal reduction in LOA, bonkers rules in Germany (who'd have thought almost 70 years after the end of WWII, there'd still be a British Military Government still in Germany?), a procurement system that makes my eyes bleed and wallet shrink, a promotion and career 'management' system that (still) only recognises personnel who stick rigidly to a well-worn (and rather boring) path; as a corollary, the career risks taken by stepping away from the Light Blue/Mainstream careers and being referred to in the perjorative sense as the 'diaspora'. The accumulated risk from a vast range of change programmes that is delivered to the men and women on the shop floor or in the cockpit (and in spite of this being identified and high-lighted in H-C report, nowt has been done to reduce this turbulence and increased risk); the painfully short corporate memory of the Air Staff and Air Command.
But otherwise happy to stay in until they kick me out. With my Zimmer frame.
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F*** me whenurhappy, that is an excellent post.
I guess it's a question of perspective. For all the Sh1te in the mob, there remains many huge positives - as those who have actually experienced civvy life can testify to.
And, as Thing says, if the Sh1te is overwhelming - get the **** out.
Stop worrying about the mess you might or might not be leaving behind - that's not your problem. Having a great life is your problem.
I guess it's a question of perspective. For all the Sh1te in the mob, there remains many huge positives - as those who have actually experienced civvy life can testify to.
And, as Thing says, if the Sh1te is overwhelming - get the **** out.
Stop worrying about the mess you might or might not be leaving behind - that's not your problem. Having a great life is your problem.
F*** me whenurhappy, that is an excellent post.
The chance to make decisions on one's own (without upwards and sideways referrals), the daily challenges which demand that one make the 'best guess' or, perhaps the 70% solution; seeing people - indeed, whole populations that are much, much worse off that any of us could really fathom, seeing air-power delivered in all it's glory, seeing the best (and worse) of Joint action, seeing guys and girls putting 110% in without any 'encouragement' and finally, doing the job for real.
Few 'civvy' jobs could have delivered such a rich tapestry of experiences. Just restore the London allowances and a decent GYH for those INVOLSEP.
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The secret to going early is not to ask, it is to tell.
Something along the lines of " I have a new job starting on x. I will be leaving the military the day before. Feel free to disagree. If you do, be aware that I will still not be attending work and here is the address of my lawyer."
Takes some balls, but it has been effective in at least 2 cases that I know of.
Something along the lines of " I have a new job starting on x. I will be leaving the military the day before. Feel free to disagree. If you do, be aware that I will still not be attending work and here is the address of my lawyer."
Takes some balls, but it has been effective in at least 2 cases that I know of.
Would it not be possible to compensate those whose "harmony" has been breached? For each day the individual exceeded the guidlines an extra - say - 20% salary uplift might be an appropriate reward without breaking the bank at the MoD. Alternatively rather than just upping the X factor, target the money at those who deploy.
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I guess it's a question of perspective. For all the Sh1te in the mob, there remains many huge positives - as those who have actually experienced civvy life can testify to.
Yup, free dental care.
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Free dental care, and...
Yup, free dental care.
Yup, free dental care.
After a lengthy drive (as they couldn't do the procedure on his unit) he was informed the RAF would no longer do the procedure he needed for free.
Basically, you have free dental care but only the basic bare minimum that doesn't cost much.
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bit amused that our Lords & Masters are worried about "long-term retention rates
currently being below average"
Of course the Armed Services should move body and soul to ensure that they NEVER fall below the average...
what's the definition of average again..................
currently being below average"
Of course the Armed Services should move body and soul to ensure that they NEVER fall below the average...
what's the definition of average again..................
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Speaking as a visitor from another service, retention is horrendous in green as well.
Blokes are signing off left, right and centre. This of course leads to manpower shortages resulting in more work for the remaining few therefore starting the circle of more sign offs again.
Obviously time away while serving is a given, however knowing about it in advance eases the burden.
Getting told with less than a weeks notice that you are off on a 7 week long exercise is going to
blokes off!
Sadly it appears that no senior officer has the minerals to do anything about it.
Blokes are signing off left, right and centre. This of course leads to manpower shortages resulting in more work for the remaining few therefore starting the circle of more sign offs again.
Obviously time away while serving is a given, however knowing about it in advance eases the burden.
Getting told with less than a weeks notice that you are off on a 7 week long exercise is going to
blokes off! Sadly it appears that no senior officer has the minerals to do anything about it.
Sorry, I couldn't let the following go unchallenged:
I am leaving next year after 16 years service. I (and many, many others) have NO intention of joining the Reserves...and if I get reactivated when Op Certain Death comes around in the form of another jaunt to the Middle East, the call-up centre and DV people will have great fun trying to detox me from all the spliffs I took, and questioning my BNP membership, Russian girlfriend etc.
Private business you say? I don't know what you've been smoking since you left, but I don't think AirTanker, BAE or G4S are good examples of how to apply market forces to the business of Defending the Realm.
mmmm...ever heard of skill fade, security checks, fitness for ops...? 
What I was trying to provoke was discussion on the merits of rehiring ex service members. There's your larger manpower pool. Why do the Armed Forces want or need to take raw recruits, train them at-as you say- massive cost and then when they are done discard them? How would private business deal with that?
Private business you say? I don't know what you've been smoking since you left, but I don't think AirTanker, BAE or G4S are good examples of how to apply market forces to the business of Defending the Realm.
Let's not forget that aircraft engineering/flying etc is done in the civilian world. Commercial ops hire pilots and engineers without the need to have them from year dot. If there are pinch points in the system why not put a short term contract out for personnel to relieve it?
Training Risky,
You'll get a letter thanking you for your service and encouraging you to consider joining the reserves. After I PVRd the letter I got seemed to be mostly about how I could join the reserves. It made me wonder why I bothered even filling in the little box on JPA asking for my reasons for leaving the Service!!!
You'll get a letter thanking you for your service and encouraging you to consider joining the reserves. After I PVRd the letter I got seemed to be mostly about how I could join the reserves. It made me wonder why I bothered even filling in the little box on JPA asking for my reasons for leaving the Service!!!
