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Terrorist and enemy military threat from microdrones and UAV.

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Terrorist and enemy military threat from microdrones and UAV.

Old 28th Oct 2013, 20:12
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I am sure it is not that long ago since there was a thread on here about these quadrocopters flying in swarms.

this First Person View (FPV) is interesting. how miniaturisation of electronics and mass production of modular devices has made these things possible and affordable.

The next logical step is autonomy (this is done with some military systems) good article in this months RAeS mag on the subject of autonomy and RPVs.

With autonomy the distance between the remote pilot or dependence on LST or Sat Comm becomes immaterial. I guess the limitation becomes energy.

How long will it be before autonomous systems become available to the RC fanatic or small commercial operator?

In the early naughties when we were introducing autonomous systems, spook HQ were certainly interested from a CT point of view. Probably not to develop countermeasures but certainly to be aware of a probable threat. ITAR just delays these things becoming available - or does it?

I remember having discussions with ADRP at the time over how we were going to certify such things. this was before the rule book had been written.
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 21:08
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Are you saying the bad guys use MAV's with IED's to sink the ships ?
I think he was saying the bad guys unleash of swarm of MAVs from the ship or whatever. Its only a matter of time before some nutter uses one to build a flying bomb - you can bet yer ar5e various defence co will be looking at 'alternate uses' of these gadgets.
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 21:41
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An answer to the OP is that in the UK it would be down to the civil police (who also use these) to counter them as the civil police have primacy.


The micro RVP would not need some form of explosive on board to be able to be used for terrorism, but I'm not going any further on that.

A local criminal uses one of these to check for police observation teams on his land. It is much cheaper and less obvious than the microlight that used to be employed for this task (day time only, and a hand held thermal sight is still used at night). Green posters may well remember just how important it is to keep your head down, or mask any OP activity, but it seems the police just can't get into this habit and stand out like sore thumbs at night.
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Old 28th Oct 2013, 21:50
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dead pan

I could think of easier less complicated ways of delivering and one
less likely to be interfered with, both physically and by radio.

Last edited by 500N; 28th Oct 2013 at 21:52.
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 09:43
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The micro RVP would not need some form of explosive on board to be able to be used for terrorism,
The Lithium Polymer batteries that power these devices make effective incendary bombs. Lithium Sulpher batteries are even better as they have more chemical energy than TNT.
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 10:51
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ISTR that some here within these 'cyber-walls' flew these type of aircraft in 2007, in a dusty place, and seeing bad guys, and 'dealing' with them (from an un-named US city with lots of lights!).....all whilst earning HM wage....nothing new here....
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 14:59
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Under 7kg you don't need to (a) tell anyone, (b) conform to any national rules, (c ) have any quals to fly it.
HOWEVER: Taking piccies or conducting covert ops against an unwilling participant carries a 2 year prison sentence and UNLIMITED fine if found guilty.

They (in all their shapes) are the future, like it or not.
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 16:43
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My previous frivolous banter aside ...

The BBC have started using this technology for OB filming ...

BBC Hexacopter

Mind you model rocketry has come a long way too


And they carry cameras ...

Coff.
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 21:09
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Estes

Coff, reminded me of the Estes model rockets I used to build and fly in the 90s. In the catalogue there was one which carried a 110mm Kodak instamatic. I never bothered.

I still have them in a box in the garage loft. now I wonder if the solid fuel engines are life ex? These days I would have to get a chit from DOSG or whatever they call themselves now.
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Old 29th Oct 2013, 21:45
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Dragartist old chap ... You're an engineer ... Do what comes naturally

Best ...

Coff.
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Old 30th Oct 2013, 00:51
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This thread has forced me out of lurking and in to posting.

I just wanted to say that this particular type of threat has been extant as long as there has been a radio control aircraft community.

The problem with the 'drones' that are proliferating in the civvy world is that their distribution is via many many streams.

Radio control aircraft and their associated parts are generally sold through relatively few outlets and to relatively few people so a fairly decent community generally grows up around a good hobby shop. These guys do look out for their own, and have even been advised by the Police in the past about looking out for suspicious behaviour and persons. This doesn't mean there aren't ways in which people could purchase materials or equipment to make RC aircraft unnoticed in the past, and that's even more the case with internet outlets.

This sort of attack has been documented in the US and in Europe so it's not unheard of:

Students 'planned terror attack using remote control planes' - Telegraph

Terror and toy planes ? not so remote ? CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

Remote Control Plane Plot: Massachusetts Man Indicted - ABC News

Seems in all cases that it was the observations of the people that uncovered the plot, rather than anything specifically related to the use of RC aircraft.

Would these plots have worked? Maybe. Lots of ifs-and-buts on the technical side, but if the aim was to spread terror, then yes, they most likely would have worked depending on the target.
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