Firemen Strike
Courtney Mil.........I didn't want to touch on the point you make about those who've never contributed.......I didn't want to be accused of anything unsavoury. Let's face it, people are queuing up to be offended about SOMETHING these days! But you are quite right..........for fear of repeating myself, the politicians who play god with our lives and the nations finances are an unmitigated disgrace. Uncontrolled immigration........Health tourists.........a benefits system that is out of control.........projects that go massively over budget......the list, tragically, is endless! Firefighters or forces pensions, in the grand scheme of things don't even figure. Tell me Al R............why should it be that pensioners and benefit claimants should benefit from a year on year rise of 5.4%? If we truly were all feeling the pain together, you'd have no complaints from me.......I'd just suck up and deal with it! "In it together".......really? I would truly love DC to come and justify that statement to me.......face to face! And while he was at it, he could come help me perform cpr on someone vomiting, defacating and urinating all over me as happened a couple of weeks ago! This country is wrotten to the core.
But, despite the politicians.....I know we have the finest armed forces in the world.......respect to you all gents!
But, despite the politicians.....I know we have the finest armed forces in the world.......respect to you all gents!
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GBZ
I thought the link would raise either a smile.. or a rifle into the aim.
I guess that in 2004, an agreement was reached. But as soon as the agreement reached the startline (April) and as soon as the new wave of management had reached the top of the pile and those with sufficient seniority to push it through back in 2004 had all retired, the union decided to take action. At best, it should not have agreed to it in 2004.. or be reminded of the terms it agreed to then.
I am not a union basher, but I see the economic data coming through, data that has nothing to do with so called fat cats and politicians, and I feel sorry for my kids. I don't want to condemn them to financial and economic hell (I made my kids start pensions and investments when they were 15 - they hated me) but at what point do we stop and see the bigger picture? If we honour the agreements, we are sticking our heads in the sand. I'd love to stand by the agreement and I despise the systemic corruption and bastardisation of everything that we all emotionally and financially paid into, but we have to be realistic.
Dave,
Scapegoats? There are no scapegoats, only victims. I can think of one victim on the A14 during the last firefighters strike, but that's another story. The victims here though can either be us, or they can be our kids. You want to find someone to blame? Ok, how about Brown and Blair for flooding the market with cheap credit to fund political promises that were unaffordable (for gods sake, we were issuing debt, to pay for the interest on loans taken out to pay for loans..), blame stupid, moronic and greedy people taking second mortgages for a new telly, a holiday and a second car, blame greedy b'stards in the city, blame the EU.. take your pick, what does it matter? You are the infantry in a greater political battle, the pbf has NEVER won in the short term.. you'll be used by the legislators or the unions, thats the sad part.
Courtney,
Agreed. I want my money going into pensions, schools, hospitals - we have to bring the debt under manageable limits first though. Will we? Nope.. absolutely no way. But we have to be healthier than the next country, THATS the battle. That's what we are trying to do. If we don't, then we can kiss goodbye to what little good that IS left.
I thought the link would raise either a smile.. or a rifle into the aim.
I guess that in 2004, an agreement was reached. But as soon as the agreement reached the startline (April) and as soon as the new wave of management had reached the top of the pile and those with sufficient seniority to push it through back in 2004 had all retired, the union decided to take action. At best, it should not have agreed to it in 2004.. or be reminded of the terms it agreed to then.
I am not a union basher, but I see the economic data coming through, data that has nothing to do with so called fat cats and politicians, and I feel sorry for my kids. I don't want to condemn them to financial and economic hell (I made my kids start pensions and investments when they were 15 - they hated me) but at what point do we stop and see the bigger picture? If we honour the agreements, we are sticking our heads in the sand. I'd love to stand by the agreement and I despise the systemic corruption and bastardisation of everything that we all emotionally and financially paid into, but we have to be realistic.
Dave,
Scapegoats? There are no scapegoats, only victims. I can think of one victim on the A14 during the last firefighters strike, but that's another story. The victims here though can either be us, or they can be our kids. You want to find someone to blame? Ok, how about Brown and Blair for flooding the market with cheap credit to fund political promises that were unaffordable (for gods sake, we were issuing debt, to pay for the interest on loans taken out to pay for loans..), blame stupid, moronic and greedy people taking second mortgages for a new telly, a holiday and a second car, blame greedy b'stards in the city, blame the EU.. take your pick, what does it matter? You are the infantry in a greater political battle, the pbf has NEVER won in the short term.. you'll be used by the legislators or the unions, thats the sad part.
Courtney,
Agreed. I want my money going into pensions, schools, hospitals - we have to bring the debt under manageable limits first though. Will we? Nope.. absolutely no way. But we have to be healthier than the next country, THATS the battle. That's what we are trying to do. If we don't, then we can kiss goodbye to what little good that IS left.
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GrahamO that is a shocker of a post........ You should hang your head. FFs are trained not to give their life ?? Who is ?? Unfortunately when they do give their life it's usually searching a widow makers furnace for a geet like you. FFs have not had a pay increase for 5 yrs and the risks they will take at the drop of a hat is incredible. You seriously need to get a reality check on what FFs do and have to endure on a daily basis.
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Mate,
Exactly this time next month, we'll see what next years military pension increase will be. 5.4%? I wish. I don't expect David Cameron or Bob Crow to be puked over either.
Exactly this time next month, we'll see what next years military pension increase will be. 5.4%? I wish. I don't expect David Cameron or Bob Crow to be puked over either.
Tell me Al R............why should it be that pensioners and benefit claimants should benefit from a year on year rise of 5.4%? If we truly were all feeling the pain together, you'd have no complaints from me.......I'd just suck up and deal with it! "In it together".......really? I would truly love DC to come and justify that statement to me.......face to face! And while he was at it, he could come help me perform cpr on someone vomiting, defacating and urinating all over me as happened a couple of weeks ago! This country is wrotten to the core.
But, despite the politicians.....I know we have the finest armed forces in the world.......respect to you all gents!
But, despite the politicians.....I know we have the finest armed forces in the world.......respect to you all gents!
B word........you must have been ear wigging at my fire station........because you have just virtually stated almost word for word, what I've told my colleagues!!!! It's madness.......I have to be careful here, but I've had a few people say to me......"we can't go down without a fight" and "remember the miners"..........dear god! We are pawns in a high stakes game. I told those of my colleagues that voted for a strike that they are playing a game of Russian roulette where they no which chamber the bullet is in........but they're gonna pull the trigger anyway!
Truly.......I'm embarrassed and it breaks my heart! Like most decent people in the public sector.......I just want to get on with my bloody job!
Truly.......I'm embarrassed and it breaks my heart! Like most decent people in the public sector.......I just want to get on with my bloody job!
Al R........I was referring to the state old age pension and benefit claimants............not those in receipt of occupational pensions.
Al R.............I actually agree with everything you said there. I see the data too. I may only be a firefighter, but I truly DO understand this countries woes..........as for Blair and "no more boom or bust" Brown.......give me strength! How about announcing to the world that you're going to off load a big chunk of the nations gold reserves.......and then wonder why the price dives in anticipation! I think we need to think the unthinkable.......but everyone must be prepared to take the pain. If I see one more advert for pay day loans, or foxy bingo, I'll scream!
Dave
GBZ
I thought the link would raise either a smile.. or a rifle into the aim.
I guess that in 2004, an agreement was reached. But as soon as the agreement reached the startline (April) and as soon as the new wave of management had reached the top of the pile and those with sufficient seniority to push it through back in 2004 had all retired, the union decided to take action. At best, it should not have agreed to it in 2004.. or be reminded of the terms it agreed to then.
I am not a union basher, but I see the economic data coming through, data that has nothing to do with so called fat cats and politicians, and I feel sorry for my kids. I don't want to condemn them to financial and economic hell (I made my kids start pensions and investments when they were 15 - they hated me) but at what point do we stop and see the bigger picture? If we honour the agreements, we are sticking our heads in the sand. I'd love to stand by the agreement and I despise the systemic corruption and bastardisation of everything that we all emotionally and financially paid into, but we have to be realistic.
Dave,
Scapegoats? There are no scapegoats, only victims. I can think of one victim on the A14 during the last firefighters strike, but that's another story. The victims here though can either be us, or they can be our kids. You want to find someone to blame? Ok, how about Brown and Blair for flooding the market with cheap credit to fund political promises that were unaffordable (for gods sake, we were issuing debt, to pay for the interest on loans taken out to pay for loans..), blame stupid, moronic and greedy people taking second mortgages for a new telly, a holiday and a second car, blame greedy b'stards in the city, blame the EU.. take your pick, what does it matter? You are the infantry in a greater political battle, the pbf has NEVER won in the short term.. you'll be used by the legislators or the unions, thats the sad part.
Courtney,
Agreed. I want my money going into pensions, schools, hospitals - we have to bring the debt under manageable limits first though. Will we? Nope.. absolutely no way. But we have to be healthier than the next country, THATS the battle. That's what we are trying to do. If we don't, then we can kiss goodbye to what little good that IS left.
Dave
GBZ
I thought the link would raise either a smile.. or a rifle into the aim.
I guess that in 2004, an agreement was reached. But as soon as the agreement reached the startline (April) and as soon as the new wave of management had reached the top of the pile and those with sufficient seniority to push it through back in 2004 had all retired, the union decided to take action. At best, it should not have agreed to it in 2004.. or be reminded of the terms it agreed to then.
I am not a union basher, but I see the economic data coming through, data that has nothing to do with so called fat cats and politicians, and I feel sorry for my kids. I don't want to condemn them to financial and economic hell (I made my kids start pensions and investments when they were 15 - they hated me) but at what point do we stop and see the bigger picture? If we honour the agreements, we are sticking our heads in the sand. I'd love to stand by the agreement and I despise the systemic corruption and bastardisation of everything that we all emotionally and financially paid into, but we have to be realistic.
Dave,
Scapegoats? There are no scapegoats, only victims. I can think of one victim on the A14 during the last firefighters strike, but that's another story. The victims here though can either be us, or they can be our kids. You want to find someone to blame? Ok, how about Brown and Blair for flooding the market with cheap credit to fund political promises that were unaffordable (for gods sake, we were issuing debt, to pay for the interest on loans taken out to pay for loans..), blame stupid, moronic and greedy people taking second mortgages for a new telly, a holiday and a second car, blame greedy b'stards in the city, blame the EU.. take your pick, what does it matter? You are the infantry in a greater political battle, the pbf has NEVER won in the short term.. you'll be used by the legislators or the unions, thats the sad part.
Courtney,
Agreed. I want my money going into pensions, schools, hospitals - we have to bring the debt under manageable limits first though. Will we? Nope.. absolutely no way. But we have to be healthier than the next country, THATS the battle. That's what we are trying to do. If we don't, then we can kiss goodbye to what little good that IS left.
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but everyone must be prepared to take the pain
I hear what you're saying. The question is, will Matt Wrack? On top of a salary of £69,835, your General Secretary also has an annual pension contribution of £45,889 paid from your pockets. Did you know that?
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AlR, if they want to make it fairer for younger generations, why do they keep on raising the state pension for those with grandfather rights? The state pension is the biggest part of the dwp budget.
A more sensible option would have been rationed NHs treatment for the over 75s, seeing as this demographic costs the state over 70% of the 500 billion NHs budget. Callous? Sick of hearing about tough times, tough measures, whilst the debt I will be paying until my mid 70s state retirement age keeps growing to pay for preserved benefits of others who bltantly never paid enough into the system.
A more sensible option would have been rationed NHs treatment for the over 75s, seeing as this demographic costs the state over 70% of the 500 billion NHs budget. Callous? Sick of hearing about tough times, tough measures, whilst the debt I will be paying until my mid 70s state retirement age keeps growing to pay for preserved benefits of others who bltantly never paid enough into the system.
batboy1970,
Really?
The rest of the public sector had a pay freeze of 2 years according to the government, which was actually 2 years and 364 days, i.e, 3 years for the rest of us. We then had a 1% pay rise.
Are you honestly saying that the FF have maintained exactly the same pay since 2008?
FFs have not had a pay increase for 5 yrs.
The rest of the public sector had a pay freeze of 2 years according to the government, which was actually 2 years and 364 days, i.e, 3 years for the rest of us. We then had a 1% pay rise.
Are you honestly saying that the FF have maintained exactly the same pay since 2008?
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Vr,
I am not going to defend state policy, I don't agree with much of it. Some from this parish will have worked with Tim Garden. His wife (Baroness Garden in her own right) addressed the Lib Dem conference this week and made more sense than most of them put together. But the reality is, as we start to come off QE especially, we have no money. I know the message is over egged, but the only way to get more is to borrow more (and thats what got us into this mess) or have fracking come good in an unimaginable way. The state pension age will continue to shuffle to the right, AFPS15 WILL come under further unsustainable pressure. There is no fair.
Do I think we should pay for those who have nursed us and protected us in their old age, and not waves of economic refugees, funded by the legions of angst filled, hand wringing, self loathing wets that seem to permeate Westminster? Of course I think we should revise our national priorities, absolutely, and I agree with your points about the NHS to an extent; we have become obsessed with extending life (the cynic in me thinks that it is the self perpetuating justification to justify cutbacks) but not the independent quality of it. The info that is only now coming out about how Germany, in effect, got rid of Silvio Berlusconi when he mooted the idea of Italy leaving the Euro, reminds me just how fragile this whole house of cards is.
I am not going to defend state policy, I don't agree with much of it. Some from this parish will have worked with Tim Garden. His wife (Baroness Garden in her own right) addressed the Lib Dem conference this week and made more sense than most of them put together. But the reality is, as we start to come off QE especially, we have no money. I know the message is over egged, but the only way to get more is to borrow more (and thats what got us into this mess) or have fracking come good in an unimaginable way. The state pension age will continue to shuffle to the right, AFPS15 WILL come under further unsustainable pressure. There is no fair.
Do I think we should pay for those who have nursed us and protected us in their old age, and not waves of economic refugees, funded by the legions of angst filled, hand wringing, self loathing wets that seem to permeate Westminster? Of course I think we should revise our national priorities, absolutely, and I agree with your points about the NHS to an extent; we have become obsessed with extending life (the cynic in me thinks that it is the self perpetuating justification to justify cutbacks) but not the independent quality of it. The info that is only now coming out about how Germany, in effect, got rid of Silvio Berlusconi when he mooted the idea of Italy leaving the Euro, reminds me just how fragile this whole house of cards is.
That's another fine mess you got us into....
Picking up a loose thread here....
I note the comments about our profligate politicians with some amusement. I doubt that any prospective parliamentary candidate hitting the hustings with proposals for spending cuts large enough to have saved the situation would have ever seen the inside of the House of Commons.
Vote for Batco!
I note the comments about our profligate politicians with some amusement. I doubt that any prospective parliamentary candidate hitting the hustings with proposals for spending cuts large enough to have saved the situation would have ever seen the inside of the House of Commons.
Vote for Batco!
Al R.........yes, I knew that. And, as I said, I have my own issues with the FBU........but I need to be careful. Suffice to say, I feel like the meat in the sandwich!!!!!
You might be able to help me here.......I can't embed a quote into my reply. Where it should say "quote", it says "reply". Anyone got any ideas.
You might be able to help me here.......I can't embed a quote into my reply. Where it should say "quote", it says "reply". Anyone got any ideas.
Party Animal
I think it was a 3 year pay freeze actually. I say "I think" because we got 1% last year.......and dare I say it, but 1% is pretty insignificant, so I've not noticed a meaningful rise in my pay for a long time. I believe the chief fire officers jumped the gun and our pay freeze started a year before the rest of the public sector........but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me gents.
Dave
I think it was a 3 year pay freeze actually. I say "I think" because we got 1% last year.......and dare I say it, but 1% is pretty insignificant, so I've not noticed a meaningful rise in my pay for a long time. I believe the chief fire officers jumped the gun and our pay freeze started a year before the rest of the public sector........but if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me gents.
Dave
Either way we argue it, it's not a military problem, as mentioned on page one the days of military regulars manning green goddesses are long gone and a range of private companies now cover strikes with decent equipment and better training, thank goodness.