Woolwich

[Heathrow Harry]

I am amazed by some of lunatic, racist rubbish spouted in some of the posts on here

Don't you guys ever look in the mirror?

What's the difference between you and these jihadis?

Nothing but hate & fear spilling out on anyone who doesn't look like you, or sound like you

[Cows getting bigger]

It doesn't seem that long ago when a certain young CGB would walk into the Mess and have to explain why an Irish Catholic was in the RAF and not playing around with semtex, 9V batteries and a Tupperware lunch box.

As for the Woolwich chaps - criminals, nothing more.

[ricardian]

A voice of sanity - a British Muslim imam

[langleybaston]

I thought the armed police [just watch the video!] were magnificent.

QRA doesn't get much quicker than that!

Nice one.

[El Grifo]

What's the difference between you and these jihadis?

Probably something minmal like " cold blooded, savage murder"

As for the Woolwich chaps - criminals, nothing more

Overlooking completely the established fact that they were self-proclaimed and known muslims !!

[cargosales]

Originally Posted by langleybaston

I thought the armed police [just watch the video!] were magnificent.

QRA doesn't get much quicker than that!

Nice one.

Hmmm.. I've been wondering about whether or not to post, lest it gets taken the wrong way by some but what the heck.

Just how magnificent were our armed 'boys in blue'? .. On the video on the Mirror's website, Woolwich attack video: Watch full extended footage of terrorists charging at police car in attempt to kill WPC - Mirror Online we see/hear Suspect No. 1 getting taken out with two rounds. After which he is seen lying on the ground moving his legs (shame) and writhing (hopefully in lots of pain).

Suspect No.2 then takes four rounds, and, a second or two later, another two rounds. That's 6 !! But by all accounts he is still alive and now under armed guard in hospital.

So .. Are our armed police 'shooting to cause minimum pain' or are they just crap shots? 6 rounds and a murderer is still alive??? !!!

Genuine question: What the hell is going on with our armed police units?

CS

[tonker]

I feel a 9mm v .45, which is best thread starting.

[muppetofthenorth]

CS, according to some witnesses the 2 suspects also had a pistol which they attempted to use. At least one of the shots is believed to have come from them.

[CoffmanStarter]

Charity Help for Heroes has received almost £600,000 in money and pledges from the public since Wednesday's Woolwich murder

It won't bring back Drummer Lee Rigby ... but a tremendous and touching response nonetheless.

Let's hope that his Widow and young Son are looked after financially ... they should want or nothing ... likewise for any other Military Service person, and their immediate family, killed on active service or through a terrorist atrocity.

[Rosevidney1]

Why was it thought necessary to allow uncontrolled immigration into a small already overpopulated country? Why are so many of these immigrants just welfare cases with chips on their shoulders and a NEED to change the laws of society? What has multi-culturalism done for us? I am fed up with the host of bogus asylum seekers free loading here. I support immigration for those with qualifications lacking in our increasingly dumbed down society and I would permit those of UK origin to return to our shores when thrown out by foreign nations, especially those in Africa.

[fantom]

You may wish to ask your questions to Mr Blair.

[UAV689]

Great poem on page 7.

RIP to you tommy, stand easy.

Words absolutely fail me to the horror of what happened, yet in the darkest hours, quite often the best in humanity is shown, this time by those brave selfless women, both the one guarding the fallen hero and the brave female officers that took them down.

Last week I saw a video that was viral on Facebook, of a girl attending a march in Luton from a bbc3 show, was shocking the attitudes displayed. If I knew how to link here I would.

There is without doubt a secular mindset of a large section of Islamic communities. Alongside that, you absolutely cannot deny the violence, mindset, dictatorial, tribal, backwardness of the vast majority of Islamic countries. It is no wonder a section of them behave this way. It would not be hard to radicalise people when historically they come from countries like that.

[Laarbruch72]

You absolutely cannot deny the violence, mindset, dictatorial, tribal, backwardness of the vast majority of Islamic countries.It is no wonder a section of them behave this way. It would not be hard to radicalise people when historically they come from countries like that.

Please bear in mind that the two Woolwich nutters were born Christians and brought up in the UK and then converted and radicalised here, they were not from Islamic countries. It might be better to turn your spotlight on why and how they were radicalised and became truly mental here at home, rather than trying to blame "dictatorial tribal backwardness" of Islamic countries in general.

With the apparent advanced age and cold war vintage of many of the posters in this thread and the whole military forum these days, it's rapidly becoming a parody of a Richard Littlejohn column. Thank goodness for the likes of Heathrow Harry, Ricardian and pr00ne, and the one or two current and recent serving. Otherwise we're going to hell in a handcart.

[Jabba_TG12]

we are already going to hell in a handcart, Laarbruch. We're about fifteen or twenty years down that road, if not more.

Maybe it is the old cold war warrior age of some of the posters on here.. if youre happy with the general state of things and the direction that British society is going in, good for you. With respect, and the fact that you mentioned the age group of the cold war types as a factor, Im inclined to think that you are young enough not to have known any different, although I'll happily stand corrected if Im wrong.

I'd like to be able to agree with you and say that all in the garden is rosy, but I honestly cannot.

All I know is that the events of the other day shocked me to my core and Even as a widower myself, I cannot begin to imagine the pain Drummer Rigby's family are going through and will carry with them for the rest of their days. Regardless of how things were during the crusades or 500 years ago, the Uk was not a liberal democracy in those times. Things have moved on. There can be no excuse, no justification for such an act, either on the battlefield or off it.

And, as much as I dread it happening, I have grave doubts about just how many more cheeks the silent majority will turn before a tipping point comes. Whatever the liberals or left wingers may think of the great unwashed, however much they may sneer at look down their noses at them and see them as incapable of rational independent thought, if there are any, let alone many more of these incidents on British soil - and remember, the likes of MI5 have snuffed out more of these planned attacks of this nature than have happened, and people are serving jail sentences as a result: one is reminded of an old PIRA statement "You have to be lucky all the time.. we only have. to be lucky once" - it worries me that there will be a real backlash. Not just a bunch of Millwall fans bricking the odd mosque and chucking bottles at the rozzers. I mean serious disorder.

I just hope that Im not around to see it.

RIP Drummer Rigby. Nobody deserved that. Nobody.

[Finningley Boy]

As a former "TG12" Cold War Warrior I fully agree with Jabba TG12, I would add that while the two assailants in question were born as Christians and in the U.K. their Brain washing, radicalization call what you will, was provided by a Gentleman and his disciples who were not born here in the U.K. but hail from the very Islamic countries which still do practice medieval level justice. The reason why these characters get the way they are is resentment at the largely white make up of the population, the Decadence (which we have mostly the leftwing radicals of yesteryear to thank for) and their own perceptions that perhaps socially they feel out of place. This resentment is given a pressure valve release, so to speak, via the existence of imported extreme islamic views and the those who fill these young fellahs heads with it all, such as Adem Choudary, Abu Hamza (now in the U.S. penal system I know) and the chap that Teresa May can't manage to get deported because of the well constructed legal system which the Government are following to the letter!

FB

[cuefaye]

Two very well reasoned posts Jabba and FBoy. Not racist in any way, not provocative, and I'm pretty certain representative of the hugely moderate UK populus - of whatever cast.

[woptb]

“The reason why these characters get the way they are is resentment at the largely white make up of the population, the Decadence (which we have mostly the leftwing radicals of yesteryear to thank for) and their own perceptions that perhaps socially they feel out of place.”

What decadence? These aren’t the last days of the Roman Empire! I’m a citizen of a great country & I believe the majority of people in it, are good & decent. I would certainly never live anywhere else. Why are the left-wingers to blame? It’s all the fault of lesbian social workers from Lewisham?

Many people would like to live in a less complex, confusing age than our own. They are not at home with today's moral relativism and yearn for communities that have passed. They are afraid of being globalised. When I see commercial overkill, pavement cyclists or casual loutishness, I temporarily join this group.
But the penalty paid for social conservatism is too great. I don't want my daughter to be nothing but a housewife, I don't want to return to 'No blacks or Irish' signs in boarding-house windows & casual racism,jokes about nig-nogs & hilarious military nicknames like Snowy & Sooty !
I like the idea of gay priests & soldiers, sailors & airmen – they have the same capacity to love, fight & die for their country, as well as the straight man or woman next to them. I have no desire to force people to remain in loveless marriages. I hate the idea of back street abortions & support a woman’s right to choose. I couldn’t easily live in a country which enforced capital punishment. In fact, I don’t want to sit in constant judgment on my neighbors, or have them sit in judgment on me.
I am increasingly suspicious of those who, from Left or Right, want to go backwards. Aren't they the same people who are always moaning? They regret the passing of the days of the stiff upper lip, at the same time as complaining about one inch of snow, one inch of floodwater or three days of heat?
In the Fifties & early sixties, when thousands of men who'd survived the trenches were still in their sixties and the country was full of men and women who'd been through the Blitz. Strangely, they didn't spend their time longing for the return of the workhouse and public hangings.
I dislike individuals who damn whole religions or nations on the basis of the actions of a few. When we start using ‘them’, it’s a victory for that small number of hideously base humans, the like of which killed Lee Rigby.

[Courtney Mil]

Originally Posted by Mark Easton, BBC Home Editor

There will be a few voices from the margins attempting to exploit the events in South London for various political ends, but our natural response to attack is to rally round, to support each other, to reach out. It is about respect and calm.
Those are the principles that our police, security services and military seek to protect.

There is bound to be a mix of reactions to this abomination and it is to be expected that some will link it numerous others - or to other attempted atrocities. Time for caution, I think.

[Finningley Boy]

What decadence? These aren’t the last days of the Roman Empire! I’m a citizen of a great country & I believe the majority of people in it, are good & decent. I would certainly never live anywhere else. Why are the left-wingers to blame? It’s all the fault of lesbian social workers from Lewisham?

I am largely referring to perceptions and how one's face fits Sir. However, yes, a lot of the negative aspects of more Liberal Social policy was pursued in earlier years by the mainstream left. The accommodation of Gays and Lesbians was more progressively pursued by the Labour Party, who represented moderation on such issue, they would after all they are a party of Government. But on other matters, Such as the Death penalty, they brought about its abolition, they pursued a lighter less judgmental approach to illegal drug abuse, they attacked John Major for his one attempt to tackle the growing problem of marriage break up and single parent families. I'm not saying they are necessarily in the wrong all the time, but they do get things wrong and they have become in recent times a bunch of hypocrites. There are many a Left winger today struggling to reconcile there defence of Islam and those who seek to bring its more fundamental customs to our shores and their hyper sensitive defence of such matters as Gay rights and the rights of all those who hold religious beliefs dearly, who are not Muslims. But this is just how I see it.

FB

[SOSL]

Hi, El G.

You said "Overlooking completely the established fact that they were self-proclaimed and known muslims !!"

Well actually, they were self-proclaimed and known murdering scum!! You only have to watch the video to see what a total loser the first guy was.

If you consider him to be a true representative of a major, worldwide religion, I would seriously question your judgement

For instance , could you imagine the Archbishop of Canterbury spuriously apologising for women having to witness his barbarity?

Cargosales. How many shots were fired by the good guys and how many by the bad guys? Do you know?

Rgds SOS