If Scotland Declares UDI..........
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The Irish Navy could do with some updated kit for sure but it's all they need - fishery patrols, a bit of search & rescue and back up for the police in smuggling cases
Why would Scotland want anything more???
Why would Scotland want anything more???
Last edited by Heathrow Harry; 15th Jun 2013 at 11:35.
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Why would Scotland want anything more???
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What is the threat? I would suspect if they consider threat (likelyhood and capability) then they would be wise to have some form of plan and capability. That capability however need not be as per the current capability drawn from contingency of SBS, QRA, RM uncle Tom Cobbly and all! An independent Scotland could not afford that so it should not attempt to do that. Like any insurance policy you consider your risk and what you can afford to do. To be honest I'd rather tax payers money went to address the social, welfare, health and economic needs rather than a what if from a Tom Clancy novel.
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Anti terrorist cover is currently provided by the SBS (I think!!) would Scotland have its own special forces?
In the short term, our friends and allies might assist, should the need arise.
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HH,
Prior to 9/11 no-one had ever attempted to crash airliners into a large number of skyscrapers. Glad you're not part of our emergency planning team. Are you?
Duncs
Prior to 9/11 no-one had ever attempted to crash airliners into a large number of skyscrapers. Glad you're not part of our emergency planning team. Are you?
Duncs
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has anyone ever attempted to take over an oil platform in the N Sea?
MJK recruitment vid...
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I understand that on a military forum issues of defence will be central to discussions. That said, I must admit that what I find amusing in this thread is the underlying assumption, predominantly offered by those vehemently opposed to Scottish independence, is that Scotland would be expected to stand up a military capability straight away. They further expect that Scotland's military capability should be measured against that of the current UK. This is rather strange as it does not recognise: military capabilities are grown and change throughout a country's history; Scotland's foreign policy would not be as ambitious as that of the current UK and hence her defence policy would be similarly less ambitious. Furthermore Scotland and the remaining UK would have defence interests in common, and from common interest come cooperation. For some, the defence argument seams to be a totem upon which the credibility of independence hangs. I am not so convinced that the man, woman or 16+ teenager in the street really shares that view.
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Do you really think that somewhere with such a vile, wet, midge-ridden climate knows the first thing about barbecues?
Is it even possible to cook porridge, haggis and whatever else the wretches eat over a barbecue?
Standing around a lard-fuelled barbecue in their shortbread-tin skirts in the drizzle whilst swigging IrnBru waiting for the porridge to boil.
Sounds truly wonderful.....
Is it even possible to cook porridge, haggis and whatever else the wretches eat over a barbecue?
Standing around a lard-fuelled barbecue in their shortbread-tin skirts in the drizzle whilst swigging IrnBru waiting for the porridge to boil.
Sounds truly wonderful.....
Either that or he is a stirrer.
credit to Matt
Last edited by TomJoad; 15th Jun 2013 at 18:55.
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I understand that on a military forum issues of defence will be central to discussions. That said, I must admit that what I find amusing in this thread is the underlying assumption, predominantly offered by those vehemently opposed to Scottish independence, is that Scotland would be expected to stand up a military capability straight away. They further expect that Scotland's military capability should be measured against that of the current UK. This is rather strange as it does not recognise: military capabilities are grown and change throughout a country's history; Scotland's foreign policy would not be as ambitious as that of the current UK and hence her defence policy would be similarly less ambitious. Furthermore Scotland and the remaining UK would have defence interests in common, and from common interest come cooperation. For some, the defence argument seams to be a totem upon which the credibility of independence hangs. I am not so convinced that the man, woman or 16+ teenager in the street really shares that view.
What I don't see is how you can categorically make the statement that Scotland's foreign and defence policies would be less ambitious. The current incumbents of Holywood (oops Holyrood) have at no stage said with any conviction what any of the SNP policies would be, let alone the ones you specifically mention (and hiding behind the "we'll have to negotiate after the referendum result to see what happens" scarcely produces an informed electorate). Added to this the fact that none of the other parties are saying anything either means that the electorate can't have a clue what the impact of voting yes will be.
This is too big an issue to vote for purely on the Nationalistic fervour; if it were my heart only then I would probably say Yes, but my head is involved as well. Of course, this is all assuming I'm able to get leave from my job in order to be home on the date concerned. Of course, as someone born in Inverness, living near Elgin, with a family living there still, owing a house there and planning to retire there, why should I expect to be allowed to appoint my wife (who will be there voting on the day) as a proxy to cast my vote for me. If "perceived" 3rd world countries such as Pakistan can arrange for their overseas workers to vote in a General Election, I find it gobsmacking that a modern nation can't do the same for its citizens.
Until parties can start giving facts about their plans (rather than simply applauding reports they like and refuting ones they don't), the jury's out on this one.
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"H,
Prior to 9/11 no-one had ever attempted to crash airliners into a large number of skyscrapers. Glad you're not part of our emergency planning team. Are you?
Duncs
"
I'm in the same room as everyone else in the US military then Duncs.......
You can't plan and equip against every possibility - there was a dreadful case where some b****** hid in a big wooden horse and devastated a major city but we don't currently train in anti-wooden horse operations I believe........
Prior to 9/11 no-one had ever attempted to crash airliners into a large number of skyscrapers. Glad you're not part of our emergency planning team. Are you?
Duncs
"I'm in the same room as everyone else in the US military then Duncs.......
You can't plan and equip against every possibility - there was a dreadful case where some b****** hid in a big wooden horse and devastated a major city but we don't currently train in anti-wooden horse operations I believe........
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TomJoad is correct -a country's armed forces more or less reflect their own view of their place in the world
The UK (and almost certainly England) still believes we should be able to fight in the front line against just about anyone across much of the globe
Maybe the Scots will be happy to have a policy similar to Ireland , Iceland or Faeroes
The only problem is that the English (rightly) suspect that if something goes wrong it'll be us bailing Scotland out of the hole again
The UK (and almost certainly England) still believes we should be able to fight in the front line against just about anyone across much of the globe
Maybe the Scots will be happy to have a policy similar to Ireland , Iceland or Faeroes
The only problem is that the English (rightly) suspect that if something goes wrong it'll be us bailing Scotland out of the hole again
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TomJoad is correct -a country's armed forces more or less reflect their own view of their place in the world
The UK (and almost certainly England) still believes we should be able to fight in the front line against just about anyone across much of the globe
Maybe the Scots will be happy to have a policy similar to Ireland , Iceland or Faeroes
The only problem is that the English (rightly) suspect that if something goes wrong it'll be us bailing Scotland out of the hole again
The UK (and almost certainly England) still believes we should be able to fight in the front line against just about anyone across much of the globe
Maybe the Scots will be happy to have a policy similar to Ireland , Iceland or Faeroes
The only problem is that the English (rightly) suspect that if something goes wrong it'll be us bailing Scotland out of the hole again
Why, please explain?
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What I don't see is how you can categorically make the statement that Scotland's foreign and defence policies would be less ambitious.
Of course, this is all assuming I'm able to get leave from my job in order to be home on the date concerned.
Until parties can start giving facts about their plans (rather than simply applauding reports they like and refuting ones they don't), the jury's out on this one.
Of course, this is all assuming I'm able to get leave from my job in order to be home on the date concerned.
Until parties can start giving facts about their plans (rather than simply applauding reports they like and refuting ones they don't), the jury's out on this one.
I do believe that the National mood in Scotland would call for a less ambitious foreign policy. Despite its disproportionate role, Scotland as a whole is less emotionally bound in its history of Empire. England's national character, and I write this as an Englishman, has been defined more by its global role and how others perceive it abroad. Scotland is a far smaller country and the people of Scotland are far more content "living in their own skin". I believe that would in turn inform an independent Scotland's foreign policy.
Why don't you get a postal vote?
I agree entierly that " parties need to start giving facts". One major problem here is that the UK government categorically refuses to discuss "options, mechanisims and processes" in case it influences the outcome of the referendum. Understandable to a point.
Last edited by TomJoad; 16th Jun 2013 at 09:55.