If Scotland Declares UDI..........

[rab-k]

the sum of the collective is far greater than their component parts.

Same could be said of the EU, could it not?

I think maybe some of the suggestions on previous threads that England should have a vote to keep Scotland in the union are valid too. Whether we like it or not independence for Scotland would have a marked effect on both economies and a huge impact on the image England has in the eyes of other countries.

Replace "England" with "the EU" and "Scotland" with "the UK". Do all EU citizens get a vote in Camerloon's In/Out referendum in 2017? The EU, like the UK, is just a social, political, economic and (in some cases) monetary union, is it not?

we'd have to stop taking the pi $$ out of them

The Irish (most of them) have been separate for almost a century, and I believe they're still subject to a few pi $$ takes every now and then.

[Courtney Mil]

I agree. The same could well be said for the EU, Rab-K

Tomjoad, I 'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I think (in that it is my opinion) that you should understand BEagle in the context of this avaiation forum before jumping at the post you quoted. I suspect the same for Biggus. Of course, I may be wrong, but knowing the people in this crewroom, I think you may be swinging punches at a false radar return.

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by Courtney Mil

I agree. The same could well be said for the EU, Rab-K

Tomjoad, I 'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I think (in that it is my opinion) that you should understand BEagle in the context of this avaiation forum before jumping at the post you quoted. I suspect the same for Biggus. Of course, I may be wrong, but knowing the people in this crewroom, I think you may be swinging punches at a false radar return.

Err I think you are over thinking this mate, sorry! As someone else said hard to judge tone in written medium, so only going by what has been written. Take a look through this entire thread/post (whatever) and tally the references to derogatory national stereotypes. Think you will find it is one way - only defending my view mate.

[Roland Pulfrew]

references to derogatory national stereotypes

Uninformed comments from little englanders

Oh the irony

[cornish-stormrider]

Who the @@@@ are you calling English?
I can trace my ancestry back further than I can count - and bear in mind I'm not from Redruth.

There ain't much "little englander" in there, but I will admit to holding a red passport, following the chariot, paying taxes and living in mr Cameron's paradise!

But I drinks Guinness or Glenfiddich, or both but not in the same glass.
Have at me with "banter" or trolling or racism or thick inbred Cornish eejit.
It's the internety, and you can say what you like. I've had far worse from far better,

FWIW most folks north of the border disliked me before I even opened my mouth, either they were the best judges of character or hated the cursed English on principal - still I had the last laugh........ But I won't say why, there is no statute of limitations on my crimes!!!

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by cornish-stormrider

Who the @@@@ are you calling English?
I can trace my ancestry back further than I can count - and bear in mind I'm not from Redruth.

There ain't much "little englander" in there, but I will admit to holding a red passport, following the chariot, paying taxes and living in mr Cameron's paradise!

But I drinks Guinness or Glenfiddich, or both but not in the same glass.
Have at me with "banter" or trolling or racism or thick inbred Cornish eejit.
It's the internety, and you can say what you like. I've had far worse from far better,

FWIW most folks north of the border disliked me before I even opened my mouth, either they were the best judges of character or hated the cursed English on principal - still I had the last laugh........ But I won't say why, there is no statute of limitations on my crimes!!!

Hey we are related - as they say we are all Jock Tamson's bairns

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by Roland Pulfrew

Oh the irony

Yup the real irony was that I suggested you count and tally them. But hey ho you be selective Roland.. Oh the irony

[Roland Pulfrew]

But hey ho you be selective Roland

Not to me old son. But hey ho you be selective TomJoad

[bcgallacher]

Just about all Scots are nationalists but only a minority are Nationalists - the referendum will result in a 70/30% no vote. The present SNP government have done a decent job of governing the country but it is doubtful if 'Wee Eck' can muster the votes for independence.What worries me is the referendum could result in a fanatical Nationalist group resorting to violence when they do not get the result they want.

[Courtney Mil]

Let's hope it is 70/30. One issue may be that the YES voters are more politically motivated than those that just want things to plod along as they are. That often leads to a far better turn out for the "radicals" than the lethargic majority. A potential, say, 40/30 vote (in terms of total population) would suddenly look a lot closer, whouldn't it?

TJ, I'll try to stop over thinking.

[Fareastdriver]

Quite - why he should feel compelled to make a comment in the first place, wonder what his intent was. Your ball over

Sorry Tom. Worked in the Far East but based in Scotland for the last thirty five years and now retired here so have an interest in were I am living. The wrong number was merely a typo; I have been driving up the old A74/M74 and stopping for lunch at the highest pub in the UK since the sixties.

My comment about the lawyers migrating to Scotland was only mirroring the concerns of the people I socialise with,; all born and bred Scots.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

CM,

I'm not sure that 70% will vote. If they do, I suspect that it will be the highest turn-out for years. However, I agree that the vociferous minority (from both sides) are the ones that are most likely to visit the polling stations.

Duncs

[Heathrow Harry]

Voter turnout in National Elections in Scotland was over 70% until 2001 - no reason to suspect they won't get a big turnout

[bcgallacher]

The 70/30 split I referred to was the percentages of those who vote not that of the electorate. In recent times people have been reluctant to turn out to vote - hopefully the importance of the issue will give a high turnout. The situation that may arise is that the winner of the referendum of whatever persuasion may have less than 50% of the electorate so that the result is really not satisfactory.

[OutlawPete]

Particularly the case in the event of a Yes vote. There is already an established base of Yes voters (est 30%). The concern is that there is a high degree of undecided, if polls are anything to go by.

All Yes voters will definitely vote. Will all those who think No actually turn out? And it's anyone's guess which way the undecided will go.

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by Fareastdriver

Sorry Tom. Worked in the Far East but based in Scotland for the last thirty five years and now retired here so have an interest in were I am living. The wrong number was merely a typo; I have been driving up the old A74/M74 and stopping for lunch at the highest pub in the UK since the sixties.

My comment about the lawyers migrating to Scotland was only mirroring the concerns of the people I socialise with,; all born and bred Scots.

No need to apologise mate. It was Biggus who tabled your biography thinking (I guess) it was germane to the debate not me. I just presented the corollary as an equally valid premise.

However I would be interested to hear from you on what you believe the human rights issues would be. I haven't picked up any sense of that so genuinely interested on your views there.

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by bcgallacher

Just about all Scots are nationalists but only a minority are Nationalists - the referendum will result in a 70/30% no vote. The present SNP government have done a decent job of governing the country but it is doubtful if 'Wee Eck' can muster the votes for independence.What worries me is the referendum could result in a fanatical Nationalist group resorting to violence when they do not get the result they want.

I think you are on the money there 70/30, the yes vote will not prevail. The polls have been fairly consistent on that. What I am sure will follow however will be a restructuring of the Union along perhaps a more Federal model.


I don't share your concerns bgallaghar re any militant movement,I've seen no evidence of that in my 20 or so years here. The Braveheart crap again is drivel spouted by the ill-informed,wind up merchant and swivel eyed loon aka Calvin McKenzie etal. Yes Scotland will vote No but I believe the referendum will sow the seed for further evolution of the Union.

[newt]

Apathy on behalf of the 'No' voters will give the 'Nats' the chance they need to win the day!!

My view is the 'Yes' vote will prevail!

So do what I am doing, vote with your feet and move south before they close the border!!

[TomJoad]

Originally Posted by OutlawPete

Particularly the case in the event of a Yes vote. There is already an established base of Yes voters (est 30%). The concern is that there is a high degree of undecided, if polls are anything to go by.

All Yes voters will definitely vote. Will all those who think No actually turn out? And it's anyone's guess which way the undecided will go.

Interesting Outlaw I see the logic in your argument just never considered it in those terms. I guess we must assume that the SNP can call upon a fairly loyal base. Who knows - it may then still be a case that they just need to muck it up to loose rather than actually win it - if that makes any sense!

One thing for sure, I do hope the debate starts getting serious and fast- I have had enough of the the fluff from both sides.

[Hummingfrog]

Newt

Apathy on behalf of the 'No' voters will give the 'Nats' the chance they need to win the day!!

My view is the 'Yes' vote will prevail!

I think you are seriously misinformed if you believe that statement. My wife and her family, who can trace their roots back to the Western Isles, will crawl through a nest of vipers to make sure that Scotland remains part of the UK. She has to leave the room when Salmond comes on the TV to spout his "facts". The ratio of our Scottish friends who support the idea of independence seems to be below the 30% or less which the polls suggest.

I, as an Englishman, will vote for the status quo as that is in my best interest. The vote will be decided on how each person feels it will affect their personal circumstances and we need far more true information than we are getting should Scotland become independent

Simple questions like:-

As an Englishman will I get my state pension paid by the UK as an expat?
As a Scotswoman, who worked for the MOD and as a Scottish teacher get her state pension paid by the UK for her MOD work and the Scottish government for her Scottish work?
Will I be able to hold onto my ISAs as an expat?
Will I need a EHIC to get SNHS health care as an expat and will I still be able to use UKNHS as the SNHS is running into problems paying for cancer drugs available in the UKNHS?
What will be the Status of my kids - one English and one Scottish- who have both lived in Scotland for the past 25yrs?

and many more!

I look forward to a grown up debate but with the calibre of politicians we have nowadays I think we will have to rely on what the professional bodies such as the CBI, and ICAS say to get a more balanced view.

HF