Should Pilots use the word 'clear' on the RT?
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But even after 'gear down' had been in for years, some Hercules co-piglets were still calling "Finals, gear checked".... One exasperated Local Controller at Brize eventually became so fed up with non-standard JATE-cowboy R/T that he advised that landing clearance would not be given until the C-130 crew confirmed that their landing gear was indeed DOWN!
Back to the original subject of the thread, I too was taught to avoid the use of the word 'clear' as it was an ATC word because of the Tenerife tragedy, but a student of mine once did gently point me in the direction of CAP 413 to show me that it was now part of normal R/T usage. I still feel a little uncomfortable with it though... but not as much as I do with creeping Americanisms, of the 'with the flash', ' (squawk code) coming down' etc, & 'al-timy- ter' rather than the perfectly good Anglo-Saxon 'altimeter'.
Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Captain Oveur: What?
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!
Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.
Tower voice: Over.
Captain Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: Roger, over!
Roger Murdock: What?
Captain Oveur: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Captain Oveur: What?
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!
Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.
Tower voice: Over.
Captain Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: Roger, over!
Roger Murdock: What?
Captain Oveur: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 20th Apr 2013 at 11:49.
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I think that the significant post-Tenerife change was to replace "take-off" with "departure" in all cases except for the purpose of issuing and acknowledging a take-off clearance. It seems that this was (possibly mistakenly) extrapolated by UK Mil pilots to delete the word "Clear" from their responses. Whilst many of us were taught (or more likely just adopted) the technique, it has certainly been incorrect for many years and I am curious to know if it ever was stipulated by JSP318A.
Excellent, Courtney me old horseman!
I must admit that, having been once given some complicated clearance at breakneck speed by a Spam controller, concluded by "Readback!", I'd have loved to have acknowledged with "Err, Ascot....what he said!".
I must admit that, having been once given some complicated clearance at breakneck speed by a Spam controller, concluded by "Readback!", I'd have loved to have acknowledged with "Err, Ascot....what he said!".
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Is there a link to the Tenerife accident? I have looked before but couldn't find it.
On no-no words, how long had Pan remained in use despite determined efforts to change to ramp, stand, dispersal, or whatever?
On no-no words, how long had Pan remained in use despite determined efforts to change to ramp, stand, dispersal, or whatever?
"Finals to land and stream"
Another case of the word "clear" was from the DZ: Clear to Drop! Is that still used if there is anyone left to drop anything?
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Are 'softball' and 'hardball' surface still used? Once, when controlling a French jet, the pilot didn't seem to understand our terminology. As tense as the moment was, we had to laugh when he responded to our sharp clarification about "dirt track!" with ".. no need to get shirty with me sir, from up here, all ze tracks look dirty".
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Ken, 2010 was in this century. Was it the non standard JATE-cowboy RT that caused XV304 to land without wheels? never did find out the cause before I retired. Now as for JATE Clearances that probably goes back to when Doreen was "in charge" of JATE. she retired last century I think. It took ages to convince operators that JSP 318B and 553 did not ackowlege any JATE clearances. so much folk law around still today. It's a good job we are not cleared to smoke 8 hrs before flying and drink within 50 yds of the aircraft.
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Whoopity, Yes they were still using the call "Clear live drop" from DZ a couple of years back.
I think there are a few people left to drop stuff if they have the JATE clearance!!!!
I think there are a few people left to drop stuff if they have the JATE clearance!!!!
