Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Should Pilots use the word 'clear' on the RT?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Should Pilots use the word 'clear' on the RT?

Old 20th Apr 2013, 10:08
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
Far more imortant to be in trim. Right? See, I did listen to all those QFIs!
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2013, 11:44
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 758
But even after 'gear down' had been in for years, some Hercules co-piglets were still calling "Finals, gear checked".... One exasperated Local Controller at Brize eventually became so fed up with non-standard JATE-cowboy R/T that he advised that landing clearance would not be given until the C-130 crew confirmed that their landing gear was indeed DOWN!
Beagle: this Brize v Lyneham stuff is soo last century.... don't you know we're all one entity now? Personally never liked the 'gear checked' thing, no less words than 'gear down' & didn't add clarity.

Back to the original subject of the thread, I too was taught to avoid the use of the word 'clear' as it was an ATC word because of the Tenerife tragedy, but a student of mine once did gently point me in the direction of CAP 413 to show me that it was now part of normal R/T usage. I still feel a little uncomfortable with it though... but not as much as I do with creeping Americanisms, of the 'with the flash', ' (squawk code) coming down' etc, & 'al-timy- ter' rather than the perfectly good Anglo-Saxon 'altimeter'.
Ken Scott is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2013, 11:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Captain Oveur: What?
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!
Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.
Tower voice: Over.
Captain Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: Roger, over!
Roger Murdock: What?
Captain Oveur: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?


Last edited by Courtney Mil; 20th Apr 2013 at 11:49.
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2013, 15:48
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 463
I think that the significant post-Tenerife change was to replace "take-off" with "departure" in all cases except for the purpose of issuing and acknowledging a take-off clearance. It seems that this was (possibly mistakenly) extrapolated by UK Mil pilots to delete the word "Clear" from their responses. Whilst many of us were taught (or more likely just adopted) the technique, it has certainly been incorrect for many years and I am curious to know if it ever was stipulated by JSP318A.
Brain Potter is online now  
Old 20th Apr 2013, 16:25
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,174
Excellent, Courtney me old horseman!

I must admit that, having been once given some complicated clearance at breakneck speed by a Spam controller, concluded by "Readback!", I'd have loved to have acknowledged with "Err, Ascot....what he said!".
BEagle is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2013, 18:22
  #26 (permalink)  
hum
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: zzzz
Posts: 147
Whats the world coming to indeed..

And you accept a bollocking from ATC!!!!!

@Newt.. it was a written one to the CFI...
hum is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2013, 07:58
  #27 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 75
Posts: 16,487
Is there a link to the Tenerife accident? I have looked before but couldn't find it.

On no-no words, how long had Pan remained in use despite determined efforts to change to ramp, stand, dispersal, or whatever?
Pontius Navigator is online now  
Old 21st Apr 2013, 08:31
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,793
"Finals to land and stream"
"Final" singular not plural!

Another case of the word "clear" was from the DZ: Clear to Drop! Is that still used if there is anyone left to drop anything?
Whopity is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2013, 08:40
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Behind the wire.
Posts: 300
Don't get me started on Final vs Finals and Intials vs Intial. If I hear one more student call "Intials for the break" grrrrrr.....
High_Expect is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2013, 08:49
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @RAF_IFA
Posts: 3,257
Are 'softball' and 'hardball' surface still used? Once, when controlling a French jet, the pilot didn't seem to understand our terminology. As tense as the moment was, we had to laugh when he responded to our sharp clarification about "dirt track!" with ".. no need to get shirty with me sir, from up here, all ze tracks look dirty".
Al R is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2013, 09:02
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK East Anglia
Age: 61
Posts: 656
Ken, 2010 was in this century. Was it the non standard JATE-cowboy RT that caused XV304 to land without wheels? never did find out the cause before I retired. Now as for JATE Clearances that probably goes back to when Doreen was "in charge" of JATE. she retired last century I think. It took ages to convince operators that JSP 318B and 553 did not ackowlege any JATE clearances. so much folk law around still today. It's a good job we are not cleared to smoke 8 hrs before flying and drink within 50 yds of the aircraft.
dragartist is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2013, 09:06
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK East Anglia
Age: 61
Posts: 656
Whoopity, Yes they were still using the call "Clear live drop" from DZ a couple of years back.

I think there are a few people left to drop stuff if they have the JATE clearance!!!!
dragartist is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.